If A Butterfly Flaps Its Wings In The Tie Department

As per Marc Chevalier, the WOCBD was a close call.


If you haven’t yet joined the FB Group, you should consider it. Even if you aren’t a FB person. The group itself is really interesting. You don’t have to post pictures of your own lunch just to browse it. In fact, you can’t post pictures of your own lunch, unless your lunch is Ivy.  You can click on the picture to check it out.


Speaking of Brooks, I went to the website just to see what is cooking for the fall.  This young man was at least wearing a bow tie on the home page, and I wanted to celebrate the win.  Things of note – the collar spread reminds me of the old Pat Riley collar, the lapels look a little narrow.   There is a pocket square there, though.


To be fair, if you spend some time at the Brooks site, there does seem to be a swing towards the trad. A small swing. But still.


Speaking of WOCBD, I am wearing the Andover to my radio show today, and it turns out that out of habit I have been wearing it to the show since it started.  You need at least one.  Get them here, just click on the image:


Have a great weekend.  – JB

40 Comments on "If A Butterfly Flaps Its Wings In The Tie Department"

  1. “…a swing towards the trad.”

    I’m not sure why I like this turn of phrase so much, but I do.

    “The Trad.”

  2. Andover WOCBD and others, always sold out. Why not just advertise them as special order only? That would work for me.

  3. Disclaimer: I’m not making this up. True story.

    The nineties are the biggest menswear trend for Autumn/Winter ’22. I read on the internet (WSJ?) that “dad pants” are predicted to be the Fall’s most popular menswear item. Good bye skinny jeans, ectomorphic models and heroin chic.


    • Marc Chevalier | August 22, 2022 at 11:20 am |

      Ignore anything that the WSJ writes about menswear fashion trends. On a good day, it’s several years behind the times [pun not intended]. Usually, it misses the entire dartboard.

  4. Charlottesville | August 19, 2022 at 10:48 am |

    I see that the Andover shirt is in pinpoint oxford. That is a great fabric, too rarely seen these days outside of the no-iron category or custom ordered. I happen to be wearing one today from the old Brooks Brothers of fragrant memory. May the company’s nascent trad-ward swing continue.

  5. “Radio show”?

  6. Brooks is certainly putting out winners here and there. It has to please too many competing forces to truly satisfy the more trad types among us, but the swings it takes in our direction, however small, are appreciated. I just can’t get into the Regent fit — I’m on the slender side of an average build and the shirts are just too tight.
    The Andover shirts look great though!

  7. “You can never go home again”

  8. JB –

    I had deleted BB’s site from my favorites, went to check on them based on your post…found this for fall.


    I’m not cool enough to wear present day BB.

    • John Burton | August 20, 2022 at 5:00 pm |

      Yeah, I should do a more comprehensive review. I am not cool enough either, but there was that one air pocket.

      • John, don’t be fooled by Brooks’ apparent move in the trad direction.

        The fabric quality, construction, and design (skinny lapels) do not justify the exorbitant price.

        I was saddened to learn this week that the iconic Brooks Brothers store on Newberry Street in Boston is closing permanently.

        A representative informed me that in the coming months, around the holidays, Brooks Brothers will reopen their Boston store in Copley Place, a Simon mall.

        They will probably be located near Thom Browne and Burberry

  9. Laurence Fairclough | August 19, 2022 at 2:17 pm |

    Pinpoint is a perfect midpoint between Oxford cloth and broadcloth.

  10. Sorry, BB. The divorce was settled years ago. It is you who have strayed. We tried to work it out with you, but you are unrepentant, and have chosen your condemnation of your own free will.
    Even if you were to do all the right things, which you cannot do, because you care not to know, you shall remain anathema. Too much, too little, too late. I can wait for Press and Andover to stock a couple of shirts, and there is Mercer. Meanwhile, I’ll wear sackcloth and ashes before I so much as even glance at your website. Nor shall I enter a mall operated by Simon Properties, not even to buy a watch battery from a tenant merchant. Everybody loses. Scorched earth. This is what you wanted.

  11. UVAwingshooter | August 19, 2022 at 6:51 pm |

    I ordered the reintroduced, made in USA Brooks Oxford, and was not pleased. It comes in their Regent fit and seems quite a bit more trim than previous iterations – I have had to size down because of wait loss, and I’m sure that’s part of it, but the shape is different to me. The cloth also has a slicker sheen than I would prefer; it’s quite a bit more dressy looking, which is not what I’m looking for in an OCBD. To each their own, but for that price I’ll return to my Mercer and Michael-Spencer stash.

  12. Marc Chevalier | August 20, 2022 at 12:13 am |

    I say this with a sigh: if the Ivy-Style Blog were a college, “The History of Ivy Style” would be its least-enrolled course. The comments section has shown this.

  13. Jordan Montefiore | August 20, 2022 at 4:36 am |

    I can’t think of a more boring course, and I have worn Ivy style for 60 years.

    • John Burton | August 20, 2022 at 5:01 pm |

      I can’t think of a more boring thing to do than to negatively comment on something you aren’t even interested in. There is ten years of content on this site. If there isn’t something for you here, then try just-need-to-say-something-negative.com.

    • Jordan Montefiore | August 21, 2022 at 11:32 pm |

      I didn’t say I found the site boring—I was clearly referring to an imaginary history course “proposed” by Marc. If I found the Ivy Style site boring, it wouldn’t be the first thing I check every morning.

  14. If the history of Ivy style is boring (to you), then it’s probably because you’re wearing boring interpretations of this still vibrant, interesting style. Years ago during a conversation with Boyer (as in G. Bruce) at Nick Hilton’s store in Princeton, he made this observation: most men who’ve worn this sort of clothing throughout the past few decades have done so with a lack of creativity and flair. No wonder, considering the number of insurance salesmen, CFO’s, and accountants who favored the “conservatism” of the look. If J. Press and their campus store mimics saved this style from the drabness of Reaganites, Yuppies, and Organization Men (they did), then a new generation of exegetes will do so.

    If this site (and the FB site) comprise little more than images and stories of the same ole, same ole (“Oh Look, another white button down…”; “What a great Vineyard Vines polo shirt…”; “Gosh, what a great blue blazer of basic worsted wool…”), then, yes, deliberation upon Ivy –both history and present– will prove tedious — torturous. But it need not be so.

    — I write as I place another order for bespoke (custom designed) woven Shetland tweed, soon to be made up.

  15. Marc Chevalier | August 20, 2022 at 12:31 pm |

    @Jordan Montefiore , I believe you… and I reckon that nearly all of the frequent commenters in here agree with you. @John Burton, take note.

    • John Burton | August 20, 2022 at 5:03 pm |

      Marc, if you are gonna change course because of a person who is going to throw shade on something they are not paying for that they claim is not boring, the internet is not your jam. And I hope you don’t change course. There are people who comment for no other reason than to see their name in print. While it didn’t meet the criteria for removal, that doesn’t make it any less dumbass.

  16. addendum:

    there’s no need to adjust/amend anything about the cut (styling, tailoring), cloth, or wonderful color-combining of Ivy style. Ignore the new generations of “designers” (ugh), who insist innovation lies with the cut/shaping/styling. They’re wrong. The most interesting eras (epochs?) of Ivy history have yet to be fully explored, and no style features as much interesting variety vis a vis cloth (colors, yarns, weaves, textures & weights) and nuances of tailoring. To repeat: ignore the designers. May they go out of business–all of them.

  17. To be fair to the commenters, this isn’t a history lesson as much as it’s an unsourced factoid. Where is this information from? What’s the context? Show your work, etc. In contrast, the very excellent piece “The Rise And Fall Of The Ivy League Look” written by Chensvold before his departure was very widely praised by members of this site.

  18. The collar pictured appears to have a concave roll, which is better in my opinion than whatever the more common roll is called. (One frequent commenter and blogger, oxfordclothbuttondown, I think, did a great post on collar roll.) I like the “S” curve roll myself, which requires longish points.

    On the history of IS, had JEB not “discovered” the button down in ‘96, would we all be wearing Pat Riley collars? God forbid! I would think someone else would have “discovered” it within a decade. Divine Providence.

    The stripe on the pictured shirt is too busy in my opinion. I would like to try the Railroad Stripe if it were to become available again.

    The old photos in b&w can make things appear to be boring, when in reality some of those weaves and colors were simply beautiful, and can be “exciting” if dressed up well. Some of us err on the side of caution, because we, I, don’t have the variety in our closets, or the experience to make tasty combinations.

    I find Pinpoint (POC) to be just right when worn with a suit or between seasons as it is less bulky. Broadcloth wears even more easily with a suit, but can get to be bureaucrat dull.

  19. Years ago, O’Connell’s had a beautiful Magee tweed with a “Cerulean” blue stripe. Not boring. Not my size, and RTW only. Who are all these guys who fit the template?

  20. Jordan Montefiore | August 20, 2022 at 11:25 pm |

    Mr. Burton,
    You have completely misunderstood my meaning. If I continue to wear Ivy style, and frequently read posts from the past on this blog,
    it’s not because I have no imagination. I was simply stating my opinion that I find history dry. Thanks to you, there is so much more on this site than history, and that’s why I continue to be addicted to it.

  21. Am I the only one who kinda likes (*whispers* prefers) narrow lapels?

    • All things in moderation. It’s a matter of proportion, which RTW cannot accomplish. Fashion fluctuates between extremes, sensationalism, mania…while style seeks truth through symmetry, ratio, harmony, synergy…

    • I’m neither tall nor skinny, so I like 2 3/4 to 3. That’s not a wide range, but it is a starting point. The gorge and button stance must also be in the equation. The lapel and tie in your avatar are narrow, but not too narrow, and they harmonize.

      • Perhaps not Ivy, but not Rockabilly either.

        • That suit is def not Ivy. I don’t want skinny lapels and ties (well, maybe), just slim/narrow like the hey-day. In my opinion, men’s fashion and style reached its zenith during the late-1950’s/early-’60’s. The boxy pants and wide lapels that is now considered Ivy/Trad just don’t do it for me.

  22. Hello John,
    I need your mailing address. I have something I want to send to you.

  23. whiskeydent | August 21, 2022 at 3:50 pm |

    Boring is usually in the eye of the beholder. However, it’s sometimes because the beholder is a bore. Sometimes, it’s because a bore expects to be beheld. Debates about what is or isn’t boring and about who is or isn’t an expert are, in my lowly, inexpert opinion, almost always very boring — and begging to be mocked.

  24. Just curious. What is the difference between the $165.00 OCBD and the $185.00 OCBD at Andover?

  25. Scary to think how close we came to losing the OCBD!

  26. John, I don’t think your site is boring except for the occasional grammer Nazi stomping one our coma splices or a misspelling.

Comments are closed.