Context: I had the chance to speak to Mr. Robert Squillaro, who is the Senior Vice President and Chief Merchandising Officer of J. Press about this project, which is a collaboration between Todd Snyder (if you don’t know who Todd Snyder is, he is a VERY NYC designer, successful for sure, launched his own brand and sold it to American Eagle Outfitters in 2015) and J. Press, in August. Projects like this aren’t conceived on Tuesday – pitched on Wednesday – approved on Thursday and in stores next Monday. We were talking about his role as a steward of one of American fashion’s foremost brands, and how this got started. Squillaro told me that they were approached by Todd Snyder to enter into a collaboration.
And I see why. This is a really interesting venture, enhanced by the timing, which no one could have thought of back then. Press is, well, you know what Press is. So if one were going to tackle a hybrid of NYC design and Ivy and one needed the essential ingredients, one would certainly shop J. Press. Good pitch, Mr. Snyder. Good on you for saying yes, Mr. Squillaro.
“Todd approached us with the idea and we thought it would be a lot of fun,” Squillaro said.
Fun? In Ivy? Yes.
“The process was very enjoyable,” Mr. Squillaro continued. “Todd asked us for some old catalogs and his team them took it from there and submitted products for us to take a look at. We wanted to give him creative latitude for sure. There is no reason to work with a designer of Todd’s caliber and not let him do his thing. But we wanted to make sure that we communicated the essence of the Press brand and the Ivy genre, so while he and we played around with color and other things, we had guardrails such as silhouette and fabric to ensure we were in the middle lane.”
“The collection is called Retake Ivy,” he continued. “Inspired of course to a large degree by Take Ivy, which we also draw from continually. J. Press is about maintaining and very slowly evolving the styles that everyone is wearing and that everyone wants to wear.”
I then got a few emails from the Todd Snyder people, also VERY nice. From their press release: “The Todd Snyder x J. Press collaboration consists for 48 items. These include fresh takes on the Sack Suit, the Boxy Chino, the Duffle Coat, the Harris tweed blazer, the Oxford shirt, and the Shaggy Dog…”
So let’s dig in then.
The collection is an invitation, in my mind, to a new Ivy customer. Which I am so down for. There are some items in the collection that I would not wear, but then again, I am not necessarily the target. There are also items I would wear RIGHT NOW, and that is why I like the work. There is enough innovation here to interest someone in trying the aesthetic, and enough trad in here to keep my eyes forward.
A few examples of what I am talking about.
Or this jacket, which I previewed yesterday on the FB group and which got a tremendous reception:
For that matter, here’s another jacket that’s a gimme.
I am a little religious about the OCBD. But if I weren’t, if I were modifying it to speak to a different audience, I might very well do this. Yes, it is buying something frayed. They look better frayed. And if you are new to them, this solves your problem.
They do a great job in the marketing of putting these elements together in ensembles. There are some pure J. Press elements (all the ties, for example) worn with some elements of the collection. Here is another slam dunk for me:
If you put together 48 items and shoot them, you are gonna misstep too. If it is of the appropriate temperature to wear a wool suit, it is of the appropriate temperature to wear socks. And this is coming from me. Mr. No-Sock. Well, Dr. No-Sock if you want to get technical. I am not sure why this ensemble made it through, it is that kind of catalog-disconnect (the thing that happens when you are shown something in a catalog that just doesn’t work in real life) that puts people off of the invitation. Here:
Plenty of trad to go around though. These pants:
Or this jacket:
Now THIS outfit, if you would PLEASE LOSE the Yankee cap (Go Sox, again) sits right on top of the fulcrum between invitation and canon.
And finally, my vote for the headline. This ensemble has all the right elements, a carrot for the invitation, and socks I can live with. Cardigan, check. OCBD and Press knit tie, check and check. Jeans (we’ve already voted so please) check. Bit loafers (wait til I show you bit loafers tomorrow, man, I was not a huge fan until these, but that is tomorrow, and now I am a huge fan) check.
I wrote yesterday in the FB group that it is Ivy Style, not Ivy Uniform, but I do have to say this: the Press/Snyder effort does a much better job of door opening and tradition preserving than the Brooks first outing earlier this year, and they are to be applauded for the creativity and for staying on top of the balance beam the whole time.
This collection is a home run! It’s like clothes porn. I especially like the Ghurka khakis.
I can’t wait for the post on bit loafers.
When I was younger I used to Hate (capital h) them, but now that I’m pushing 50 I must say that black bit loafers have really grown on me. I purchased my first pair yesterday.
Don’t buy any more til I show you these 🙂 – JB
I’m not just saying this because I have a bias towards Press but this is the only TS collab where I like most if not everything. I think they really succeeded in drawing in younger people like me. It’s fun and still classic. I also like that they included Ouigi Theodore (Brooklyn Circus) for creative direction.
Best wishes to the new partnership. Most of it is not for me, but then I am not the target customer. If it moves some younger men towards Ivy without being downright weird (e.g., that graffiti-covered tweed suit from Polo a few years ago), that seems like a good thing. The large exterior label on the sweater presumably can be removed, which would improve it immensely, and I have my doubts about the teddy-bear fur coat on the gentleman with the beard, but much of it looks good, even to a fastidious fogey like me. And the perennial classic J. Press is still there for the rest of us.
Hi – that’s precisely what I think it will do. Move people towards Ivy a little.
For me the term “.. Harris tweed blazer”.. says it all. I am not sure that you can initiate the young buyer to classic style by “updating” the original.
I love most of this, as I worked at Ralph Lauren for (30 years!) and have some knowledge (I hope) of traditional men’s clothes.
Todd gets most of his inspiration from his time at RL, and it shows in this collection. There are inventive uses of color, fabric, mixing traditional dress clothes with sporty things, and that’s what Ralph has always done.
J. Press has gotten very stodgy in recent years, completely mediocre in many respects, from their dowdy suits to their frumpy sweaters. The only thing they do very well is their Shaggy Dogs. And now Todd is taking those Shaggies and injecting them with exciting, new, energetic colors.
I wish both companies well and think it is a good marriage of old traditional and new ideas.
Cue the pearl clutching about “designers” in 3, 2, 1…
The odd jacket, khakis, and herringbone jacket look great as far as I can tell. There have been worse collaborations.
I’ll look forward to seeing the goods in person in DC.
Are we not past the pearly clutching yet? 🙂 – JB
J. Press and Todd Snyder speaks to today’s customer. Sophisticated street smart. Goes down easy with a Jack Daniels at J. G.Melon 🥃
ETA @ Frederick: With respect, I do think updated originals can introduce people to the classics. How many artists have you gotten into because you first heard a cover version of one of their songs? Pulling the string a bit further, how many were introduced to the Blues via Eric Clapton, the Rolling Stones – Woody Guthrie via Wilco/ Billy Bragg etc.?
100% – JB
I agree with Charlottesville. I’m not the target customer, either. As a member of the prep old guard, if this brings in new blood to the family, so be it.
Very nice collaboration. Looking forward to seeing it in person sometime.
Oh, and I forgot to say -very well done JB, and quite in your writing style!
A very nice collaboration. Hoping to see it in person sometime. Oh, and I forgot to say -very well done JB, and quite in your writing style!
I hate to be the skunk at the picnic,
but I think that most of it is awful,
cartoonish and probably yet another
attempt to woo the hoodie crowd.
It’s a nice addition to Snyder’s résumé. I doubt it will do much for J. Press’s long-term bottom line. The company might just have to bounce around from collab to collab, until it runs out of collab steam and gets liquidated.
@Roger Sack, is there something inherently wrong with wooing the “hoodie crowd”? And who makes up the “hoodie crowd”?
Granted I am not a “third-generation astrologist”, but I am befuddled by some of the Ivy lunatic fringe. The tent can be made bigger.
Also sort of amusing, but unsurprising, that those with actual Ivy/ Prep bona fides are much more inclusive.
eta *generally* more inclusive.
Great post! Looking through the preview pictures on the Todd Snyder site, my impression is that those are some beautiful clothes. The collection magnifies the whimsy and sense of playfulness that you usually only find in the tiny, coded little details of more standard Ivy fare. May this collaboration be a gateway drug for many…
…Not looking forward to seeing the prices, though.
Ads from Todd Snyder pop up from time to time on my computer screen with items that are truly beautiful. I especially like the regular and shawl collar cardigans, car and pea coats. J Press is J Press. Not much more to say there. The collaboration has some nice items like the tweed coat (maybe too short for me) and the khakis. I wish them well. That being said, before I read the copy, I thought the group shot was supposed to be some sort of joke. As Charlottesville observed in his reserved and polite way, these items are not aimed at a traditionalist middle aged men. Well, at least the black male models, who look like they are miserable incidentally, seem to be middle aged men. I don’t think this collaboration will draw younger men to dressing more ivy if that is their goal.
I can definitely see the RL influence, and as such it’s a bit “try too hard” for my taste. One rarely wears hunting gear to the library, unless one is hunting wabbits in the library, but that would set off some alarms. The hounds-tooth fabric is trad (British) which is probably why it received some interest. That was the ticket twenty years ago, but will it sell today? It would work as a jacket with odd trousers such as khakis or faded denim.
Overall, nice looking items. My only quibble would be with the pre-frayed shirt, baseball cap, and ski cap. All fine in other contexts, but the street wear influence does not appeal to me personally. As other have noted above though, if this collection helps move younger guys in a more attractive sartorial direction than the ‘soiled laundry basket on legs’ look of the last quarter century or so, then let’s roll with it.
Pre-frayed items and/or company logos or patches on the outside-you can’t be serious.
You can’t even bother to make up a false name? – Much love, JB
I checked the Todd Snyder site and found a number of items that were individually quite attractive. Combining the rest with J. Press garments produced a hodgepodge effect. I’m amused by the claim that this will appear to younger customers.
@Rake, My impression is that the hoodie crowd’s only interest in tailored clothing
is probably for weddings and funerals, etc. These crowds appear to exist on opposite
ends of the eco-sociological spectrum: those who aspirations and income confine them
to “streetware” and those ” tech bro ” types who disdain “dressing-up”- I live in Silicon
Valley and am accustomed to see slovenly- attired guys emerge from an Aston-Martins.
As for me, I am not an Ivy purist, although I went to an Ivy college during the heyday.
Since the 80s my clothes featured side vents and nipped waists but have always been natural
shoulder. I have not worn OCBDs since the 70s. Most of my things these days are Neapolitan.
“Also sort of amusing, but unsurprising, that those with actual Ivy/ Prep bona fides are much more inclusive.”
How could anyone possibly (in any universe) know such a thing? Is astrology a full go, after all ?
And yeah, well, truth be known, most designs-by-designers (where’s my purse for clutching?) are a waste of time-and-$ because, in the end, it’s 100% about the quality of cloth and the quality of tailoring (for Ivy this means the shoulder first-foremost-and-always). Here JB would write something clever like “Hard stop.” I won’t. But, well, you know.
Amazing the rave reviews this is receiving without having seen it in person or moved in for a try-on. This eagerness to embrace “something new” (“Looky–It’s magic!!!”) because it’s supposedly a raised fist of defiance to “stodginess”?– I mean. C’ mon. We. can. do. betta.
Will Rake give a passing grade to a colleague (Andover, Dartmouth) who buys his clothing at O’ Connell’s and “Izzy in New York” because, as he put it, “J. Press is into fads and clearly they don’t care about natural shouldered clothing anymore”? I ask because this doesn’t sound, well, terribly “inclusive.” Shall I encourage him to question his “Ivy/Prep bona fides”?
An appropriate response to the Press/Snyder alliance:
Cloth woven in the U.S.A., American tailoring/manufacturing, and the natural, sloping shoulder is spot on.
Oh, sweetie. Suppose you missed the “generally” qualifier – my fault for adding it late, yours for missing the message.
I’m not here to grade anyone, another point you missed. The tent can and should be made bigger, and as I mentioned, those with the bona fides generally seem to concur. YMMV, as we clearly run in different circles.
But hey, be a “purist”. Deride those who expand the envelope. Yell into space. Reminisce about days gone by and duffel coats six sizes too large. Ask for Nick – never Jennifer. Read Trad-Man.
(as usual) I’m on board with Charlottesville: really liked the tennis sweater vest until I saw the label placement; as I scrolled down, I half expected to see that beautiful gun club check blazer have a giant label sewn directly onto one of the lapels.
Contrivances aside, I actually really *like* quirky little details like the OCBD – not because it’s “frayed”, but because of that hatch-stitching over the fray (if that’s what that stitch is called – I should ask my mother; she’d know).
Anyway, lads, hope you’re all well and preparing to give thanks next week!
Oh, and speaking of comprehension, does saying “I’ll look forward to seeing the goods in person in DC” seem like a blanket endorsement without moving in for a try-on, as you say?
“Actual Ivy/Prep Bona Fides”–still chuckling at this one. What, pray tell, constitutes such a thing? You can’t actually, really-and-truly be serious about this–? “Actual”– as though anyone would dare declare him/her self the arbiter of such a thing.
This nudges the gag reflex.
While this collection invokes playfulness not unlike Drake’s UK, I am afraid I am a bit on the hesitant side as well.
I personally enjoy these stylings, and it is not uncommon for guys my age to embrace this type of look.
My resignation always, as some have stated in various ways, is with the cost prohibitive price tag.
How can Ivy/Trad allure more adherents if the cost is prohibitive to almost all who fall in this market they are aiming for?
I am not some barista saving up a year’s wages, I am a junior employee in a company in NYC.
And even for guys like me (late 20’s, early 30’s), the ones they supposedly want, the price is almost entirely beyond our means despite being the ‘target demographic.’
If they truly want to grow the market, stick to the quality and make it accessible to the younger crowd.
We don’t want $500 hoodies or $1200 hoodies in short tweed jackets with $150 beanies.
I’ll take an OCBD, blazer, high rise plain front khakis any day.
A great looking camel hair coat to be sure. Anybody would look great in that unless they paired it with a watch cap and ridiculously short pants. Notice how much longer the camel coat body is compared to the sleeves. The tweed collaboration coat would appear to be far to short.
Why does J Press think young people want to spend a fortune to look foolish? Whatever happened with York Street?
More photos for our enlightenment:
NO, no, no. This looks like something that clown FEC would do!
“Why does J Press think young people want to spend a fortune to look foolish?”
Strange days, sacksuit. “Strange days indeed.”
Lol’z. A good 25% of the line sold out within 10 minutes of the email announcing that the collection was live. Of course no way to know how many garments were produced, but hardly a worrying sign.
Sadly the Harris Tweed blazer wasn’t offered in a Long, so wouldn’t have worked for me.
I wanted to buy a cap but it was already sold out as are most items. This is a grand slam for Press.
Spartacus – “We don’t want $500 hoodies or $1200 hoodies in short tweed jackets with $150 beanies. I’ll take an OCBD, blazer, high rise plain front khakis any day.”
That is a great statement, and I can certainly relate. I had to acquire my wardrobe gradually over my first few years of work, and could not always afford what I wanted. But I knew what looked good, at least to me, and I was able to build up a wardrobe incrementally, starting with a blazer and khakis while in school, buying an “interview suit,” and building on it over time as I began to make a bit more money.
Because I bought good quality clothes (mostly from J. Press, 20th-century-era Brooks, Southwick and similar brands), they tended to last. The result is I still have suits, sport coats, ties and shoes that are 30 or more years old, all of which I wear regularly and augment with a new purchase here or there as the need arises.
Best wishes to you as you seek out and build your own wardrobe.
An improvement on last year’s Snyder x Bean collection, although now I hope Rugby RL’s bones are picked clean of the less fortunate design frills.
Now that the ‘collaboration’ is live on the TS website, imagine my delight in finding out that sweet “repaired” OCBD is on sale for the low, low price of $230. (and it’s not even made in America).
a sad —but expensive— joke.
As an occasional consumer of Todd Snyder cords and Champion sweatshirts and tees, quality materials are not a concern (J. Press, after all, isn’t about to tag team with just anyone). This new “drop” as the kids say seems like a great next act from last year’s L.L. Bean collaboration. Like a few people mentioned in the comments, these collaborations sell out fast; it’s a limited-quantity campaign with the possibility of keeping a few gems (e.g., the herringbone tweed overshirt is brilliant). My 59-yr-old opinionated-self postscript: The Todd Snyder company knows what its doing and the art direction is fantastic. And I’m the last guy who means to be hawking certain brands over others. The Todd Snyder + J. Press campaign is a breath of fresh air.
Bless the hearts of all the people who buy this stuff. Just a fifty five year old opinionated guy who has been wearing traditional clothes since the early eighties.
Gin and tonic time in fifteen and counting,
You can recreate and modernize the clothing you see in Take Ivy, but you can’t buy the attitude and energy these kids projected in Take Ivy by wearing their clothes. A costume that’s out of time and out of place.
And Bill, you bring up an interesting point that actually gets to the heart of things: What is the difference between wearing a costume and wearing clothes? Does the wearer feel comfortable and self-possessed or tentative and awkward? We all go through the world experiencing some ratio of those conditions and emotions, but I think it comes down to how conspicuous one feels in their clothes and how true-to-themselves they are in wearing them. As with most things over the past couple of decades, our social scenes and fashion interests have fragmented into ever-smaller subcultures and microgenres, so at some point, isn’t everyone wearing a kind of costume?
And anyone who has the panache to run down to the corner store or the laundromat comfortably wearing a bold red striped sport coat with bright orange tweed trousers and a fluorescent yellow watch cap should absolutely do so. I could probably only handle wearing one of those pieces at a time — I would definitely feel too conspicuous in anything more.
I’ve been wearing Ivy style since I was an undergrad at Princeton in the early’60s. Rest assured that it wasn’t because we had attitude and/or energy. It was just because that’s what everyone else at Princeton (including our professors) was wearing.
Todd Snyder, NOAH, Rowing Blazers, Aimé Leon Dore–they’re all trying to appeal to folks who want to marry streetwear/athleisure and dressier, more traditional clothes. The marriage is a rocky one and often ends in divorce. So do the remarriages. ‘Prep’ is always ‘back.’
It’s cheeseball, reminiscent of Hilfiger, circa 1990’s.
Politics are divisive enough these days without getting from my clothier.
Leave it be & just sell nice clothes.
I guess I am stodgy & prefer it!
Re: the GQ article that you linked. Prep isn’t back; it never went away.
I was referring to this statement in your comment above:
“…the attitude and energy these kids projected in Take Ivy…”
Not everything in life is a hard “YES” or “NO”. Try some nuance. Mixing new and old items can work, but that doesn’t mean every combination automatically is good.
A while back there was a competition here to come up with the most ridiculous outfit using trad items. The 2 models on the left look like they probably placed in the Top Five.
The 2 models on the right look great! I particularly like his sweater, looks like a sweater version of the “fun shirt”. It works because the colors blend nicely with the rest of the outfit. The girl’s outfit works as a good combination of stylish and casual that does not try too hard.
From the latest J. Press promotion: “’Beware of the Yale wolves in their J. Press tweeds,’ wrote F. Scott Fitzgerald in a letter to his daughter, Scottie. The year was 1936, and J. Press had already become synonymous with Ivy League style.” Yes, indeed—but perhaps a different sort of wolf is among us. I understand why J. Press is teaming up with Todd Snyder. Of course, he creates a “runway stunt” lay out for what are otherwise perfectly good sweaters. Adapt or die—sad but true. Would someone explain to me, someone who is perhaps in thrall to “[t]his modern, downtown sensibility,” what is the appeal of having three sweaters tied about one’s self? Is it “fun”? To me it is insipid. Again, no shade on J. Press, or even Snyder. I just don’t understand how this “marketing” appeals to anyone. (Not to mention the “nerd chic” attempt with that top button—or is that something else I’m missing?)
“Insipid” is appropriate because a lot the designer-driven stuff, made cheaply (inexpensive labor, probably overseas), is as dull and bland as a lot of what’s out there. There’s something very sad about it–the vacuity at the heart of all the designer-driven marketing-and-advertising. Some will rejoice that clever designers and business-savvy company boards will chuckle all the way to the bank–but it’s not funny. (ah, capitalism). Not really. The absurd markups in price–and the reliance upon an uninformed customer who’s easily seduced by phrases like “collaboration with” and “partnership with”…
Prep goes away when the streetprep folks who shop at Todd Snyder, RB, ALD, and NOAH tire of wearing their traditional clothing, which they call ‘prep,’ and opt for only their streetwear/athleisure (two different but adjacent ways of branding clothes). TS’s most enduring collaboration is with Champion. RB has collaborated with Fila and the NBA. ALD: New Balance and Porsche. NOAH: Adidas.
TS’s version of the streetprep look is an $876 Donegal suit worn with a marled gray $68 tee and gray $185 New Balance 990V5s. If that’s too downmarket for you, ALD will sell you a $2,650 Martin Greenfield Donegal suit to wear with a $175 Queens Souvenir sweatshirt, because you are aware of the existence of Queens and want to alert others to that fact, and $165 New Balance 650Rs.
Ivy Style was once a place to celebrate and critique knowledgeably and passionately the quality, value, beauty, and history of traditional American clothes. I am grateful for the commenters who remain interested in this pursuit.
The exploitative cynicism of Collab Culture is indeed saddening. Todd Snyder and J. Press are relying on their customers’ ignorance and desire for the instant gratification of the desire to spend several thousand dollars on outfits to wear while not reading books in a library whose temperature is below freezing.
Grim as the scene may be, we still live in a world where this* is happening. A cracking rejoinder to the Press-Synder stuff. Bully for the gents in Buffalo:
Amen. “Ivy” is not about playing dress-ups.
Sorry, but that O’Connells jacket is pretty awful too.
I think both of the O’Connell’s jackets S.E. linked to are terrific.
J.G., I share your weariness of what I’m going to call “collab fatigue.” It’s all a bit much sometimes. You and S.E. and others here clearly know your ivy style, and more so than I do. I still think that, whatever the motivations for these “collabs” (an annoying internet-y term I’ll continue to put between quotation marks), be they cynical or genuine, if they get people even just *thinking* about dressing better, they’re A-OK by me.
Beautiful jacket, S.E. – though more of an alternative than a cracking rejoinder. That said – what a difference a couple months make – now Freeman meets with your approval? They will be thrilled, I’m sure.
“Adrian Jules offers a multitude of models…. They’re far better than H. Freeman.”
You stand corrected again. (Pathetic).
This was not made by H. Freeman.
Repeat: NOT made by H. Freeman.
Want to try again??
(I wouldn’t if I were you).
A cracking rejoinder.
Oh, by the way, did I mention? —
NOT H. Freeman. Swing and a MISS.
Oh… I guess I did.
tempted to question, as it was once articulated, someone’s “Ivy/prep credentials.” I won’t because it’s such a thoroughly absurd notion—but, well.
Thanks for your kind words.
I’m no expert on traditional American style, though I’ve worn the Southern version of it all my life. That’s why I enjoy reading those posts on Ivy Style that contain little-known but valuable information about trad dress during and after its heyday. I dislike the posts that are thinly-veiled attempts at marketing on behalf of the site’s advertisers. Sponsored content, I believe it’s called.
I understand why J. Press collaborates with Todd Snyder. I realize that younger, less stodgy folks than I need a reason to buy Shaggy Dogs rather than Shaggy Bears (https://howlinknitwear.com/shaggy/).
Good for J. Press.
Good for Todd Snyder.
It’s absurd, though, the pretense that their collaboration hearkens in any meaningful way to J. Press’s glory days. Snyder asked Squillaro for some old J. Press catalogs, did he? Sure. That explains why this collection is one part Rowing Blazers, one part NOAH, and one part BB Red Fleece.
$700 for a Harris Tweed suit coat made in Portugal?
‘Boxy’ chinos that could not be less boxy? Compare https://www.instagram.com/p/CWapRvxPSpn/ to https://www.instagram.com/p/CWM1UJjPcZn/.
A camouflage duffel coat? https://www.instagram.com/p/CWFBWffPgGD/.
Retake Ivy? Give me a break.
Just because Sebastian Faulks wrote a novel featuring Bertie and Jeeves doesn’t make him Wodehouse. Just because TS and J. Press call this collaboration Ivy doesn’t make it so.
Just my extremely curmudgeonly two cents.
@SE, fair enough, lol. I did indeed mistake h Freeman for Hickey Freeman. Was not aware of the former, have my mtm made by the latter.
I did check though, and my diplomas are still securely on the wall. Cheers.
Press sells hoodies. The winter brochure has more pages devoted to casual mash ups than suits.
My apologies for the ‘intensity’ of response.
I am at least partly to blame — for the neglect of a larger (broader, more general) point: could it be that anything that inspires young people to dress better — and enjoy clothing and take an interest in ‘dressing up’—
I’m for it. We all ought to be for it. If this collaboration is an entryway— to other types/kinds/versions of tailored clothing, then hooray and kudos and amen.
* edit: could it be that anything that inspires young people to dress better — and enjoy clothing and take an interest in ‘dressing up’—is a good thing?
Thank you and hear, hear: that was the overarching point I was hoping to make many posts ago. Have a good night.
A combination of Grey style and Gay style?
Not my cup of tea.