Four weeks from today Ivy Trendwatch will shift into overdrive. The developments of the past five years, during which we’ve seen the republication of “Take Ivy,” several Ivy and preppy books from around the world, the proliferation of trad blogs and tumblrs, and of course Ivy-Style.com, will presumably shoot to new heights of public awareness when the Museum of the Fashion Institute of Technology unveils its “Ivy Style” exhibit.
I got the publicity ball rolling with a story in the latest issue of Ralph Lauren Magazine, which posted on the RL site a few days ago. Head over here to check it out.
It’s going to be a wonderful autumn. I’ll be reporting from the front lines on all the festivities. Stay tuned to these pages for updates on get-togethers, especially for the tours that Richard Press will be leading. — CC
Always ready to denigrate our ancestors, arencha, Zhou?
During WWII, 50,000,000 men were registered for the draft, but only about 10,000,000 of them—20%—were drafted. In contrast, slightly over 16,000 men were imprisoned for evading the draft, which is about 0.0016% of those drafted.
Contrast this with the Baby Boomers: more than 100,000 young men evaded the draft during Vietnam by running away to Canada.
Walter Hagen, as well as Bobby Jones, always known for their fashion style. While Jones was actually an Ivy Leaguer, Hagen grew up relatively poor, but was exposed to the look caddying at country clubs in NY. Both respected for being gentlemen with character.
The Kennedys, always a great source of Ivy style and their women will always be remembered for their character.
One of the brightest of Yale legends has taken a temporary departure from the realms of undergraduate life. The Whiffenpoofs, for 36 years the premier intimate singing group in the university, have disbanded until the war is over.
You’re not getting the picture. My personal experience has nothing whatsoever to do with your denigration of WWII-era collegiate Americans. You libeled these men and, by extension, men of their generation: this is unacceptable.
See also MAC’s comment.
Why the class warfare rhetoric, Zhou? Are you a Marxist? You sure sound like one.
Nudged the one percent last year, shop at J Press and Brooks Brothers, Ivy League research affiliate, and 28 year in the military; so no I am not a Marxist nor a Democrat. :0). By your own facts Henry, a full eighty percent of American males “dodged the draft” in the Second World War. I am in no way criticizing the twenty percent who served under arms, now as for some of the other eighty percent. You pointed out the fact so you don’t think eighty percent is rather high, or isn’t it? Also the United States had the rather unique distinction to go into a World War after it had started with much of the hard fighting having already been done.
Zhou, you cannot possibly be so ignorant as to think that the term “draft dodger” could refer, in a neutral manner, to men who, by luck of the draw, simply were not drafted.
However, given the poor state of American education, it is possible that you could be ignorant of the strong isolationist (and even pacifist) trends in America in the 1930s. Even with that glaring gap in your education, I find it impossible to believe that you, as a former member of the military, do not know that we “entered” WWII by being attacked. Your dismissive phrase “much of the hard fighting having already been done” denigrates the sacrifices made by American military personnel and the rest of the nation.
Regardless, this isn’t about you or your background: it’s about the repulsive comment you made.
You might not consider yourself to be a Marxist, Zhou, but since “Marxism Lite” (i.e., liberalism) is the reigning ideology, unless you consciously reject it, you are almost certainly following its precepts, to some degree.
P.S. to Kionon: Sorry to disappoint, but I find deprecating remarks like Zhou’s offensive.
The guilt carried by those who haven’t served has been compared by psychologists as to that of chickens who missed out on being taken by KFC. Survivor guilt by the rich and infamous weighs heavily on their souls. Except for narcissists and of course, those who suffer from Ivy envy?
Psychology is an art, psychiatry a science and those pretending to love the country and are fit and educated, yet find a way to avoid military service, are chicken shit. There are those who went to Harvard and have fired a .50cal machine gun, and then there are the rest.
Unlike serving sailors on shore, defending one’s country is one of its highest callings. Of course only unpatriotic cowards would refer to the military as “cannon fodder”. Canada even has a military of sorts and are you one of the draft dodging son’s of bitches that never returned?
I was trying to derail it. I have problems with language used by both you and GI Zhou.
Anyone, ANYONE who signed up, said, “if you call me, I will go” deserves respect, whether they were called up or not. I agree with you there, Henry. I will say plenty of those individuals were liberals, plenty have been Democrats, and a number of them have even been Marxists! We’ve established my political views in the past though I rarely speak of them.
GI Zhou,
Did you really just say that serving sailors on shore are NOT defending one’s country? Plenty of those who stand up and say, “I will go,” end up never making it outside of our borders, and a great many of them are serving sailors on shore. Some of them are my friends. Some of them are people I trained with when I was a middy. Insert Castle Speechless gif here.
I said serving sailors as in performing a Village People act, or do I have to point out the bloody obvious. You were in the navy and know what happens on shore leave LOL. Thousands died in malaria infested trenches – I guess you mean the North Vietnamese. :0)
Your phrasing was odd. Most sailors and officers get shore assignments, and a few are always on the shore. So when you said, “serving sailors on shore” (which I thought was odd syntax to begin with), I presumed you meant officers and sailors which were active duty or reservists with shore positions.
I don’t see how one could possibly get Village People out of “serving sailors on shore.” Oh, and if that was some sort of assbackwards way of referencing that some sailors are gay… Perhaps you missed the memo that DADT is gone, and lo and behold, my Navy hasn’t fallen apart yet…
I was in the Navy as a TAR for four years, so I guess that I was a “serving sailor on shore” ;and with 28 years service, I’m fairly sure that you would have some state side assignments putting you in the same boat, no? Rather than striving to be in a “Village People act”, and sorry for missing the “bloody obvious”, I was trying to do my part to make the squadron operate properly and at peak readiness. I would have expected more from someone with 28 years under their belt.
Cry me a river Dave T, I guess you have never heard the expression “Taking the Piss Out of Someone”. Unless all my years of training and operations have failed me, you don’t really become a useful member of anything until around the four year mark. You took the training and left just as you were ready to really contribute. QED (It’s Latin and an Ivy thing).
Hey GEE I ZOO, I thought this was supposed to be a site for us guys that want to talk about IVY STYLE! The web has many other places to spew b.s. I happen to like this blog and really don’t want it diluted with political b.s. about military rhetoric, etc. Having grown up in a military family and having studied political science (I have a degree in government and politics), this is the last place I want to go to hear all this…I think of IVY STYLE as a refuge from politics, etc.
Not to be mistaken, I am very patriotic…I just don’t mix my politics, religion, and beliefs to how I like to dress. Who are you to judge someone by their military service, or lack thereof? The article had nothing to do with your comment and can be described as nothing more than “trolling” for commentary so that you can feel important. Pat yourself on the back. You served your country, just as I have, my father and grandfather did, and nearly all of my uncles! Hell, even my son and brother-in-law!
Getting back to the substance of the article, It would be great to see an article about tweed, especially Harris tweed.
The backlash begins, and it hasn’t even opened yet! Talk about judging an exhibit by its buzz:
“I decided not to go to the Ivy Style at the Museum of the Fashion Institute of Technology… I realised the pretentiousness of it all goes against my own notions of Ivy Style.”
Look at the chin on that guy just to the right-of-center. What the-?
The term “draft dodgers” comes to mind.
Always ready to denigrate our ancestors, arencha, Zhou?
During WWII, 50,000,000 men were registered for the draft, but only about 10,000,000 of them—20%—were drafted. In contrast, slightly over 16,000 men were imprisoned for evading the draft, which is about 0.0016% of those drafted.
Contrast this with the Baby Boomers: more than 100,000 young men evaded the draft during Vietnam by running away to Canada.
I love that Kennedy pic over there.
Call as I see it. Have you served?
Whether or not I served is irrelevant.
Your comment was unnecessarily degrading and falsely demeaning.
Just callin’ it as I see it:-)
The Yale Whiffenpoofs most definitely went on to serve overseas.
I saw and heard them at the English Speaking Union and later at the US Ambassador’s residence in London in the late 80’s and early 90’s.
Medals all round, I’d say.
Of course you did.
Walter Hagen, as well as Bobby Jones, always known for their fashion style. While Jones was actually an Ivy Leaguer, Hagen grew up relatively poor, but was exposed to the look caddying at country clubs in NY. Both respected for being gentlemen with character.
The Kennedys, always a great source of Ivy style and their women will always be remembered for their character.
“Look at the chin on that guy just to the right-of-center.” Jay Leno an Ivy Leaguer, who knew?
Whiffenpoofs Disband
One of the brightest of Yale legends has taken a temporary departure from the realms of undergraduate life. The Whiffenpoofs, for 36 years the premier intimate singing group in the university, have disbanded until the war is over.
Yale News Digest
7 Oct 1943
http://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/2004_05/wwii.html
@Henry. I’ll take that as a no. I see they they disbanded 22 months after war was declared by Congress. Can’t rush these things.
I believe college students were deferred during WWII, seems to be the law and tradition in the USA.
Zhou,
You’re not getting the picture. My personal experience has nothing whatsoever to do with your denigration of WWII-era collegiate Americans. You libeled these men and, by extension, men of their generation: this is unacceptable.
See also MAC’s comment.
Why the class warfare rhetoric, Zhou? Are you a Marxist? You sure sound like one.
Nudged the one percent last year, shop at J Press and Brooks Brothers, Ivy League research affiliate, and 28 year in the military; so no I am not a Marxist nor a Democrat. :0). By your own facts Henry, a full eighty percent of American males “dodged the draft” in the Second World War. I am in no way criticizing the twenty percent who served under arms, now as for some of the other eighty percent. You pointed out the fact so you don’t think eighty percent is rather high, or isn’t it? Also the United States had the rather unique distinction to go into a World War after it had started with much of the hard fighting having already been done.
Henry/GI Zhou comments, 2/10. Would not read again.
~_^
Zhou, you cannot possibly be so ignorant as to think that the term “draft dodger” could refer, in a neutral manner, to men who, by luck of the draw, simply were not drafted.
However, given the poor state of American education, it is possible that you could be ignorant of the strong isolationist (and even pacifist) trends in America in the 1930s. Even with that glaring gap in your education, I find it impossible to believe that you, as a former member of the military, do not know that we “entered” WWII by being attacked. Your dismissive phrase “much of the hard fighting having already been done” denigrates the sacrifices made by American military personnel and the rest of the nation.
Regardless, this isn’t about you or your background: it’s about the repulsive comment you made.
You might not consider yourself to be a Marxist, Zhou, but since “Marxism Lite” (i.e., liberalism) is the reigning ideology, unless you consciously reject it, you are almost certainly following its precepts, to some degree.
P.S. to Kionon: Sorry to disappoint, but I find deprecating remarks like Zhou’s offensive.
The guilt carried by those who haven’t served has been compared by psychologists as to that of chickens who missed out on being taken by KFC. Survivor guilt by the rich and infamous weighs heavily on their souls. Except for narcissists and of course, those who suffer from Ivy envy?
Psychologist say a lot of really dumb shit. They carry large amounts of “we’re really not involved in real science ” guilt.
Psychology is an art, psychiatry a science and those pretending to love the country and are fit and educated, yet find a way to avoid military service, are chicken shit. There are those who went to Harvard and have fired a .50cal machine gun, and then there are the rest.
G.I.,Zhou:
How does voluntarily becoming cannon fodder qualify as serving one’s country?
Unlike serving sailors on shore, defending one’s country is one of its highest callings. Of course only unpatriotic cowards would refer to the military as “cannon fodder”. Canada even has a military of sorts and are you one of the draft dodging son’s of bitches that never returned?
Ah, so this explains the Rugby spread the other day.
Henry,
I was trying to derail it. I have problems with language used by both you and GI Zhou.
Anyone, ANYONE who signed up, said, “if you call me, I will go” deserves respect, whether they were called up or not. I agree with you there, Henry. I will say plenty of those individuals were liberals, plenty have been Democrats, and a number of them have even been Marxists! We’ve established my political views in the past though I rarely speak of them.
GI Zhou,
Did you really just say that serving sailors on shore are NOT defending one’s country? Plenty of those who stand up and say, “I will go,” end up never making it outside of our borders, and a great many of them are serving sailors on shore. Some of them are my friends. Some of them are people I trained with when I was a middy. Insert Castle Speechless gif here.
G.I. Zhou:
Better than being one of the thousands who died in the malaria-infested trenches so that Hanoi today can have McDonald’s and Coke.
G.I. Zhou:
Why Americans died:
http://english.vietnamnet.vn/en/business/17564/us-companies-leading-vietnamese-franchise-market.html
I said serving sailors as in performing a Village People act, or do I have to point out the bloody obvious. You were in the navy and know what happens on shore leave LOL. Thousands died in malaria infested trenches – I guess you mean the North Vietnamese. :0)
Your phrasing was odd. Most sailors and officers get shore assignments, and a few are always on the shore. So when you said, “serving sailors on shore” (which I thought was odd syntax to begin with), I presumed you meant officers and sailors which were active duty or reservists with shore positions.
I don’t see how one could possibly get Village People out of “serving sailors on shore.” Oh, and if that was some sort of assbackwards way of referencing that some sailors are gay… Perhaps you missed the memo that DADT is gone, and lo and behold, my Navy hasn’t fallen apart yet…
Reading that article concerning business franchises in Vietnam suggest we won the war. Good for us.
@GI Zhou
I was in the Navy as a TAR for four years, so I guess that I was a “serving sailor on shore” ;and with 28 years service, I’m fairly sure that you would have some state side assignments putting you in the same boat, no? Rather than striving to be in a “Village People act”, and sorry for missing the “bloody obvious”, I was trying to do my part to make the squadron operate properly and at peak readiness. I would have expected more from someone with 28 years under their belt.
@MAC
The real war will be won by the Red Chinese when they take over Brooks Brothers, J. Press, etc.
Cry me a river Dave T, I guess you have never heard the expression “Taking the Piss Out of Someone”. Unless all my years of training and operations have failed me, you don’t really become a useful member of anything until around the four year mark. You took the training and left just as you were ready to really contribute. QED (It’s Latin and an Ivy thing).
Hey GEE I ZOO, I thought this was supposed to be a site for us guys that want to talk about IVY STYLE! The web has many other places to spew b.s. I happen to like this blog and really don’t want it diluted with political b.s. about military rhetoric, etc. Having grown up in a military family and having studied political science (I have a degree in government and politics), this is the last place I want to go to hear all this…I think of IVY STYLE as a refuge from politics, etc.
Not to be mistaken, I am very patriotic…I just don’t mix my politics, religion, and beliefs to how I like to dress. Who are you to judge someone by their military service, or lack thereof? The article had nothing to do with your comment and can be described as nothing more than “trolling” for commentary so that you can feel important. Pat yourself on the back. You served your country, just as I have, my father and grandfather did, and nearly all of my uncles! Hell, even my son and brother-in-law!
Getting back to the substance of the article, It would be great to see an article about tweed, especially Harris tweed.
Is there going to be some kind of opening night event I can get into, or should I just go anytime?
Relevant to our interests, perhaps?
http://www.huhmagazine.co.uk/4146/zippo-lighters-from-the-vietnam-war
A troll is a troll is a troll. Excited for the exhibit.
The backlash begins, and it hasn’t even opened yet! Talk about judging an exhibit by its buzz:
“I decided not to go to the Ivy Style at the Museum of the Fashion Institute of Technology… I realised the pretentiousness of it all goes against my own notions of Ivy Style.”
We’ll miss you!
Not crying at all , Zhou. That’s a clever little Latin device you used. Fairly sure it made you feel better.
I do believe that is James Bottomtooth. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101223201805/familyguy/images/3/34/Jamesbottomtooth3.png
Christian,
Turns out gizhou was an education officer in the air force. A far cry to the SF (special forces) soldier he likes to portray himself as!!
http://www.ausairpower.net/CV-GIZhou-2009.html