TDS, Father’s Day Edition

You don’t have to be a staunch supporter of our president to be capable of diagnosing Trump Derangement Syndrome. In fact, a couple of tolerant, level-headed guys were talking about it just the other day.

And so today a story caught my eye that immediately made it roll. “I didn’t buy my dad a tie for Father’s Day because of Donald Trump,” reads a headline at Vogue.

That’s right, as if neckties weren’t endangered enough as it is, now people are boycotting them because our president, like every other before him, wears them. Of course he also wears underwear (presumably), but those aren’t quite as conspicuous as his x-tra long shiny red silken banners, so for now no boxers boycott.

Writes Brooke Bobb:

When I became older, I’d often pick out a special tie for my dad on Father’s Day. It felt like the perfect gift for the man who represented everything that a necktie was supposed to stand for: strength, dapperness, integrity. He loved the blue Façonnable and beamed when he opened the orange box to reveal a printed style from Hermès. I thought a lot about buying him a tie again this year, maybe from one of his favorite stores like Brooks Brothers or Burberry. Then it occurred to me that perhaps the tender symbolism had shifted, that men’s ties as we know them might have a whole new meaning in 2018 and not necessarily a positive one either.

And later:

… in light of the very public showings of how neckties can be used to try and divert people’s attention from the lawlessness of the men wearing them, I can’t in good conscience gift one for Father’s Day.

As we’ve been discussing lately in our new Level Up series, the world takes its shape based on what you focus on, and how you frame and interpret what you see. The TDS-suffering Vogue writer sees the thing she loathes and fears everywhere and in everything, enough to write an essay about it. One that might very well engender a backlash consisting of a four-in-hand renaissance — and four more years of long red ties.

FYI, this year I got my dad just what he wanted: a madras tie from J. Press. I suspect he’ll associate it with summer. — CC

50 Comments on "TDS, Father’s Day Edition"

  1. Evan Everhart | June 16, 2018 at 3:08 pm | Reply

    My Father’s gone up to the Lord, 11 years ago now. I still miss him, but when he was still here with us, I used to take him out for Italian or a steak dinner with a pitcher of Michelob, or a couple of white Russians, and two pots of coffee with entirely too much sugar and cream poured in. Somehow, his asking the waitress for multiple “hot blondes” made him happy, and who was I to mess with that?

    -He always wore a necktie and if not a suit, at least a sportcoat for our lunches; just as for every other thing that he did in his life.

  2. I’m quitting email because of Hillary.

  3. Canadian Trad | June 16, 2018 at 3:13 pm | Reply

    Plenty of great people have worn ties and many awful people haven’t. You should send the author that great Die Workwear post that had all those pictures of well-dressed lefties. Trump’s wardrobe should be locked away instead of all of those poor children.

  4. I am quitting (heinous) spread collar shirts because Bill Clinton wore them.

    Oh, wait a minute. I don’t wear spread collar shirts. Because they are heinous.

    Never mind.

  5. I wouldn’t purchase a tie for my father, but for the simple reasob that he owns “way too many neckties” according to my mom. Plus, he always tries to give me extra ties

  6. In the very year Americans entered the post-Trad world (1967) a musical show, Hair, opened off-Broadway that induced millions of then-young Americans’ to believe our country and planet were entering a wonderful “new age”, the Age of Aquarius. Our post-Weejuns adult lives would be a “time when humanity takes control of the Earth and its own destiny as its rightful heritage, with the destiny of humanity being the revelation of truth and the expansion of consciousness, and that some people will experience mental enlightenment in advance of others…”

    But rather than an enlightened Age of Aquarius, soon after “the day the madras died” things slowly but surely weirdly out of control until fifty (50!) years later, at the January 2017 inauguration of Donald Trump, the world entered… the Age of Hysteria.

    Did anybody see that coming?

    Not me although I knew things were more SERIOUSLY out of kilter than I’d hitherto realized when, about four years ago, all the Boomer men wore cargo shorts on Mother’s Day at a nice bistro I frequent – admittedly sans necktie but with pressed OCBD and polished penny loafers – for special occasions.

  7. In the lingo of the youth of today: OMG!! W…T….F???

    Although this sort of thing keeps cropping up…dissing “The Suits” in the ’60s, harassing, even killing suit & tie wearers in Madrid, 1938, “sans coulottes” in the 1780s, ad infinitum no doubt.

    I wonder if Ms. Bobb objects if someone equates hoodies and juvenile criminals?

  8. Evan Everhart | June 16, 2018 at 6:14 pm | Reply

    @ CausticMan & NCJack:
    Thumbs up and keep the hit parade rolling!

  9. In Iran men don’t wear ties because they are associated with the “Great Satan,” AKA the U.S.A.

    What about a bow tie or ascot instead? The Dolce Vita neckerchief look is super cool.

  10. Once upon a time, “Vogue” was a ladies fashion magazine.

    Adding political commentary to a ladies fashion magazine does not seem like a prudent business decision as it risks alienating approximately half of the potential readers (assuming an equal number of those who are right and those who are left are interested in reading about ladies fashion).

    Unfortunately, I don’t know enough about ladies fashion to know how many of those interested in ladies fashion are right or how many are left.

    On the other hand, Ms. Boob doesn’t seem to know enough about mens fashions to consider getting her Father a bow tie (unless she associates bow ties with Tucker Carlson or Robert Driscoll).

  11. New York is well, New York. So, there will, we may suppose, always be plenty of people who “dress up”– for both work and nearby leisure (New England, Litchfield Hills, Somerset Hills, Berkshires). Beyond the Big Apple, there are plenty of cities populated by locals who tend toward more formal (relative term) dress, and more than a few are places where the tasteful (stripes, motifs, subtle prints) necktie is probably worn/seen frequently. The old guard in San Francisco? Boston? Richmond, Nashville, and Charleston come to mind, as do portions of Atlanta and Charlotte. I’ll venture a guess that the “well heeled” in smaller Southern cities like Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Roanoke, and Birmingham give a nod of praise to the suit (or jacket)-and-tied gent.

  12. @ Mitchell S. – the Iranian regime’s antipathy towards ties is not due to an American connection. Some religious authority published an opinion that the necktie is a form of crucifix, and hence wearing a tie is considered un-Islamic.

  13. Thomas Mukherjee | June 16, 2018 at 10:12 pm | Reply

    Am I the only one who sometimes ties his tie twice to ensure the length isn’t too Trumpish?

  14. “These, sir, are our failures.”

  15. Surely, by this bizarre logic, every Trump-hating liberal should give up golf and take up tennis or sailing instead. As the President is a teetotaller, they should also drink excessive alcohol. They would also be just like the Kennedys – but don’t accept a ride in a car from them!

  16. Richard Meyer | June 17, 2018 at 6:50 am | Reply

    And then there is the sartorial splendor of Mr. Steve Bannon for us to contemplate.

  17. A sad state of affairs, when a tie represents the evils of society. I’m retired, so I don’t wear a jacket and tie much anymore. It’s getting harder and harder to find places to dress as in the past.

    Last week,I needed to get my drivers license renewed. I have always put on a blazer and tie for the photo. Afterwards, I visited a spirits store in the same plaza. I was immediately waited on and treated like a visiting VIP. I actually felt a bit self conscious.

    So, still, clothes do make the man.

    After reading this edition, I’m going out and buy myself a couple new ties, just as a gentle protest against Ms. Blaub.

    Happy Fathers Day.

  18. PS:

    NICE madras tie. Looks great with the seersucker.

  19. Or you could simply opt for anything that isn’t extra-long and red.

    If his father truly gets as excited as he describes to open a box from ole H each year, won’t he be disappointed by the somewhat end of a tradition?

  20. If Ms. Bobb is being truthful, then she is allowing others too much control over her happiness and wellbeing. I fell sorry for her.

    My girls make me feel like every day is Father’s Day and I will be wearing a tie today with a sack blue blazer, white oxford, red shorts and sockless loafers.

    Happy Father’s Day gentlemen.

    Will

  21. Vern Trotter | June 17, 2018 at 11:01 am | Reply

    In the late 1970s, President Jimmy Carter attempted to enter the bar at the old Boston Ritz Carlton without a necktie. The Ritz had an ironclad rule that only the late Ted Williams was allowed sans tie but with coat. Jimmy went back up to his room and put on his tie then returned.

  22. Sad state we have entered, regardless of political leaning, where “we” package up complex issues into the simplest things for easy consumption.

    Perhaps she should have gotten him a tie and a book by Boyer, Flusser, or similar… then again, perhaps she should give her dad, and many others, credit in knowing how to properly wear a tie.

    And while she’s at it, recognize that attributing so much to something so simple is ignorant… and basing an entire article on it is just plain lazy.

  23. I welcome opportunities to wear a necktie rather than searching for excuses not to wear one.

  24. Richard Meyer | June 17, 2018 at 1:21 pm | Reply

    @VernTrotter: Last time we were at the Ritz Bar- I in blazer and tie, my wife in skirt and sweater with pearls- the only other couple on had t-shirts and shorts.

  25. What a strange post. For the last ten or twelve years, this blog has been focused on the death of all things trad. The death of Brooks Brothers, the death of suits, the death of rep ties, the death of all Good Things. And suggesting that the shrinking number of proper button-down collars somehow signals a bigger moral crisis.

    Maybe the Vogue author is being a bit alarmist, but the folks in this comment section have spent the better part of a decade crying about the smallest matters, making mountains of mole hills. Including you, Christian. You’ve linked the death of trad to the death of Western civilization itself.

    Hilarious the person above me is literally clutching pearls over t-shirts and shorts, but somehow actual policy issues is “Trump Derangement Syndrome.”

  26. The tie is NOT worn/seen frequently in portions of Atlanta; certainly not in Buckhead, the section most consider to be the best. My wife and I eat in upscale Atlanta restaurants (90% in Buckhead) 3-4 times a week. I ALWAYS wear a jacket and tie. We once went eight consecutive weeks without seeing another male customer similarly attired. However, we are on a “hot streak” now. We saw ONE last night and also ONE the week before.

  27. @ Lee – good comment.

    Related – this person isn’t speaking from a position of authority on trad, or men’s style really. I’m not sure what conversation this was supposed to spark, other than “She’s wrong.” I think it’s reasonable to discuss the ramifications of negative reactions to the President and whether they’re justified or not. Charter schools face the same thing. But it has to be balanced. Is traditional clothing more associated with the right than the left? I think so. Tucker Carlson just came up the other day. Now, why is that? And is it healthy? Not in a political sense, but in a stylistic sense? In the hyday of what we think of as “traditional” men’s dress, it was worn by the right and left alike – a common ground, if you will. It would be nice to regain that common ground, in dress if in nothing else…

  28. The right likes to say liberals do too much “virtue signaling.” But hasn’t traditional style become conservative virtue signaling? I think it’s becoming that way in many people’s minds, and I think that’s drastically limiting its appeal. If we want more trad and Ivy clothes in America, and less shorts and t-shirts (which I personally have no issue with), we need to make sure the style appeals to all – as we saw in the excellent photos from the Rowing Blazers party.

  29. I’m reminded of Larry David as Sen Sanders on SNL “I own one pair of underwear. That’s it.”

  30. Grey Flannels | June 17, 2018 at 11:51 pm | Reply

    @Lee,
    Would you argue that it is a mere coincidence that the decline in dressing properly and the decline in good manners, civilized conversation, cultural literacy are parallel to each other and that there is no link whatsoever between the two?

  31. Grey, I wouldn’t be as so stupid as to confuse correlation with causation.

  32. Grey Flannels | June 18, 2018 at 2:41 am | Reply

    @Lee,
    Perhaps not only a matter of correlation, but also stemming from the same underlying cause.

  33. Grey Flannel, does trump’s jacket and tie reflect dressing properly, good manners, civilized conversation, and cultural literacy?

  34. Grey, congratulations on understanding the word correlation.

  35. Modern-day theorists of mature manhood (like Peterson) persevere, but it always comes around to Burke. Read as much Burke as you possibly can. He would almost certainly support the wearing of neckties, as occasions permit.

  36. Richard Meyer | June 18, 2018 at 10:47 am | Reply

    Then there is the sartorial effect of HDS-Hillary Derangement Syndrome. SMH

  37. Charlottesville | June 18, 2018 at 11:08 am | Reply

    Excellent post and excellent choice of gift, Christian. Your Father is lucky to have you for a son. Hope all of the fathers among us, and all who have fathers still among the living, had a great day yesterday.

    S.E., Richard and Ken — Sorry to hear about the Boston Ritz and the restaurants of Buckhead, but not surprised. Sadly, I can report much the same experience in Richmond, Charlottesville and definitely Roanoke, Virginia. My wife and I were in Charleston for Memorial day week and, aside from several at the Peninsula Grill, mine was the only tie I recall seeing at any restaurant where we dined. Even the salesmen at Ben Silver were tieless, although our salesman at Grady Ervin was wearing one. Washington and New York are the only cities where I consistently see a fairly large number of men wearing ties at lunch or dinner. However, I almost always wear a coat and tie and, like Wriggles relates above, I think I tend to be treated quite well at most places.

    As for those who want to signal their disagreement with the current President, I recommend avoiding knee-length satin ties, and eating well-done steaks. Fortunately, I have never been tempted to do either.

  38. Richard Meyer | June 18, 2018 at 12:25 pm | Reply

    @Charlottesville: Keep the faith.

  39. NaturalShoulder | June 18, 2018 at 12:55 pm | Reply

    Fortunately my wife and children do not read Vogue as they presented me with a tie yesterday for Father’s Day. It was a Vineyard Vines tie adorned with the logo of the Chicago White Sox. I am quite impressed with the quality of the VV ties. I am proudly wearing it today with a Press blue and white seersucker suit and Mercer button down.

    @S.E. agree on reading more Burke.

  40. Richard Meyer | June 18, 2018 at 1:06 pm | Reply

    @Lee: I was responding to a Vern Trotter comment about the Boston Ritz. ” Hilariously” or not.

  41. Vern Trotter | June 18, 2018 at 3:05 pm | Reply

    Here in New York the Yale and Harvard Clubs still have a necktie requirement for the dining room. At some others (21) you need a coat only. The fancy French places I think you still need both.

    Of a more pressing concern is the noise. The uptown places are not as bad as downtown. But anyplace that is not just for those of us of a crertain age, forget it. You cannot hear yourself think.

  42. I loved visiting my father at work.
    Walking those halls with him always filled me with pride.
    It seemed that everyone knew & revered my dad.
    He was well dressed & generally wore foulard or repp striped neckties, conservative suits from the most traditional local sources, & his button-down collar shirts were always starched.
    Most importantly, my dad was the most honorable man I have ever known.
    He died four years ago this month.

  43. Henry Contestwinner | June 19, 2018 at 12:58 am | Reply

    While all recent presidents have worn neckties, Obama did go sans tie quite a bit, even with a suit.

    Amazon, Apple, Google, Ikea, and Yahoo all ban neckties from their workplaces. That, in itself, constitutes a big endorsement for wearing a tie.

  44. I’d never heard that, Henry. So a young fogey couldn’t even wear a tie in his cubicle if he wanted to?

  45. Charlottesville | June 19, 2018 at 10:41 am | Reply

    Vern — I don’t know about Daniel; Le Bernardin and Jean Georges require a jacket but no tie, although many men still wear them. ’21’ as you note requires only a coat, but I still see a lot of ties there (haven’t been in since the recent re-opening, but hope that is still true). I am not a member, but sometimes am invited to the Yale Club for drinks, and see a few ties, but am glad to know that they are required for dinner. If you know of any other fogey-ish places for drinks and/or dining where ties are the norm, please pass them along.

    Foghorn – Very nice tribute to your father. I too liked to visit my father’s office when I was a tot, and he was always wearing a suit, tie and well-polished shoes.

    Henry and Christian — I wonder if there are any rebels out there who demand the right to wear a tie, and refuse to be cowed by The Man. Only half in jest, that is my usual reply when asked why I am “so dressed up.” A law professor of mine used to say that he was only reluctantly in the 20th century. I feel somewhat that way about the current era, but am not quite ready to make an exit.

  46. EVAN EVERHART | June 20, 2018 at 5:21 pm | Reply

    On a tangential side note; I rarely remember my father out of a suit, usually a 3 piece, and almost always a hat, pocket kerchief, and tie, he was a private investigator, so he was the only person in his office outside of the occasional secretary, but the other investigators with whom he worked, and who mentored him early in his career remained life-long friends with much respect for him. Conversely, I never saw my grandfather in a tie outside of photographs, but he was rather old, and unwilling to purchase new shirts which would fit his much stouter neck. Grandfather did however always wear neat and tidy khakis, a fresh white shirt, and when going out, a wiry salt and pepper hounds-tooth sport coat in mohair/cheviot with caramel brown horn buttons that I still pull out on occasion. This holiday always just makes me miss Grandfather and Dad.

  47. Edward Aisthorpe | June 24, 2018 at 4:27 am | Reply

    These vogue nancies are pathetic, they need whipping.

  48. Patrick Sullivan | June 26, 2018 at 10:04 pm | Reply

    “Gift” is not a verb.

  49. Charlottesville | June 27, 2018 at 1:36 pm | Reply

    Mr, Sullivan – You are correct. The recent ubiquity of “gifted” when a speaker means “gave” is truly bizarre.

  50. Henry Contestwinner | December 20, 2020 at 10:12 pm | Reply

    Sorry I didn’t see CC’s question until now. In response to his query, yes. In fact, I have heard that at Yahoo, Jerry Yang would summarily fire anyone he caught wearing a tie.

    Ah, such tolerance!

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