Full Rise, Narrow Leg: The Ivy Style Khaki Project
June 15, 2015
Take a look at the illustration in this vintage advertisement: would you like pants like that?
Recently I’ve been in talks with a menswear manufacturer about making a batch of khakis with a very specific cut: full rise with a leg that tapers to a relatively narrow opening. It’s a very heyday kind of look and a perennial topic of discussion in Tradsville.
It’s easy to find pants with a full rise, but the leg fit is typically baggier than some guys would like. And there are plenty of slim legs out there, but they invariably come with an uncomfortable and unflattering low rise. I myself have taken numerous pairs of pants to have the leg narrowed, from my off-white jeans to my charcoal worsteds and gabardines.
Consider this a kind of preliminary crowdsourcing post to see what you guys think of this. The first pant would likely be cotton chinos in a classic khaki shade. Please hold off on requesting minute details (if you’re hung up on details, go custom) or price (they won’t be cheap and they won’t be exhorbitant), but if the idea excites then please share your enthusiasm in the comments section and we’ll get to work. — CHRISTIAN CHENSVOLD
To be honest, the only way that I would purchase a pair is if their price was lower than a wide-legged pair taken in by my tailor. The fit will always be better that way, so why pay more?
I have had the leg narrowed on some khakis and others I have kept as I purchased them. I am interested in purchasing a pair if you get the project going.
I think these would be fantastic! I would love a pair of chinos like this and I would buy them in a heartbeat. I would love them unhemmed as well, so I could have my tailor cuff them at the length I want easily.
This sounds like a great idea. I had a pair of khakis that tapered made by–of all makers–Talbots when they also made men’s clothing. I loved these pants. They were finally retired this year because they had become too threadbare.
Yes, absolutely! Make them in two colors if you can. One a faded, warm-toned khaki like you see on Bill’s Khakis, Jack Donnelly, and Ralph Lauren chinos. The other a cool-toned, more saturated khaki like you see on Tuki West Point chinos. I would get a pair in the latter color. I’ve seen A.P.C. take this approach with trench coats, sweaters, etc., and it is wonderful.
Yes!! I know that Billax has a term for this cut, but I cannot remember what it is. It would not seem too hard for a manufacturer. Just make a long rise with a tailored fit khaki.
Where could one actually get a pair of – albeit wide-legged – full rise trousers? I have had found a pair at Brooks maybe 5 years ago, but virtually every store I visit seems to have moved to the awful-fitting and extremely uncomfortable 8″ rise garbage.
I would definitely grab a pair of these if they were to go in production.
I’d be very interested. I currently go with Bill’s Khakis in the M2 cut, which are still a bit full, and I think the price is too high at around $150. I have not tried the O’Connell’s khakis that go for just under $100, nor the “Ultimate Khakis” from Orvis at $98, which look good, at least in the catalog, but I imagine I would need to have them narrowed as well. If this new venture yields a proper fit out of the box, that would be a definite plus.
Yes! Depending on price, I certainly would purchase a pair or two. What’s being described sounds like the cut of original Levi Sta-Prest, which certainly isn’t a bad thing.
I’d certainly be interested. I’ve all but given up entirely on khakis for the time being for the reasons stated above. Either the leg is slim and the rise is too low, or the rise is decent and the leg is a parachute.
If only this would catch on, and then we could move on to longer and looser jackets that have some semblance of drape, rather than looking like they’re about to launch the fastening button clean across the room once it gives way. Then men could relearn the art of the sensible tie knot. But yes, this would be a big step in the right direction.
We’re pretty lucky in Portugal because there’s a very cheap brand which sells high-rise chinos with slim leg. It may be too slim for most but it’s a really nice bargain (24,99€). The smallest size (EU 42) has a leg opening of 7 inches. You can check them at https://mo-online.com/pt/homem/categorias/calcas/823279-calca-chino-slim-fit-
“(Ralph) and Joe Barrato, his friend from Brooks Brothers, had been lunching out regularly ever since Barrato got out of the army and joined Corbin, a trouser company, in 1963. In the mid-sixties, the well-dressed Traditional customer wore Rivetz ties, Corbin pants, Southwick natural-shoulder jackets, Gant shirts, a Canterbury belt, and Bass Weejuns. Ralph told Joe he wanted to bring them all together – in slightly more sophisticated versions – under the Polo banner.”
Sounds great. I too have trouble with most brands. Bills have a good rise but are a bit too baggy…and expensive. Just got two pair of Oris “ultimate” khakis. They have a decent fit in the waste and rise but the legs are quite big. Ralph Lauren don’t fit right anywhere. Build them and I’ll sure give them a try.
My calfs will never fit in a narrow-leg. Also, I’m concerned about the inseam turning over onto the knee while seated. This seems to happen often with this style, at least for me.
Marty — Thanks for confirming what I suspected about the baggy Orvis fit. And MAC — Interesting list of heyday staples from the RL book. The university shops in various towns around Virginia all carried Corbins in the 70s and 80s and indeed it was my preferred khaki (along with Duck Heads, which had the advantage of costing half as much) for years. They are still around, but I do not know how they fit these days.
I’d buy a pair if they aren’t too exorbitantly priced. How high of a rise are we talking? Taper or no, I haven’t found a high enough rise for me from any of the usual suspects.
I’ve been looking for these for years, and would buy them without hesitation so long as they don’t cost more than other reasonable quality chinos plus alterations (around $150?).
This is exactly the khaki I personally seek–i.e., comparatively higher rise, appropriately tapering to a dimension appropriate for the trouser waist size–“sleek.” I have purchased, presumably like many members of this Forum, Bill’s Khakis in the model 3 seeking such a trouser. Unfortunately as Bill’s somewhat trim and taper this model, they lower the rise as well. Perhaps one, with the force of this Forum, could approach Bill’s to come out with a “model 4” which would fill the need for a tapered, more modern trouser silhouette. Their trousers otherwise are well made and U.S. manufactured–the price point with Bill’s may well remain an issue. Other manufacturers/suppliers?
Are there no other old-timers out there who will confess how uncomfortable those slim-cut khakis were? Yes, they were high-rise, but that wasn’t enough, hence the return to fuller cut pants.
I’ve now converted to BB ‘Hudson’ cut. Best I’ve found off the rack.
I would definitely be interested in a high-rise, slimmer-fit cut. However, one of my issues is that pretty much all typical trouser leg widths are too narrow for my thighs.
Hudson is a bit ‘loose’ but close enough. If these could be improved, I’d be very happy!
During the heyday, adults didn’t have waists smaller than 32″.
Ivy fetishists who do are advised to put on weight unless they want to be accused of not being authentic.
As long as I don’t have to totally remove my feet to get them on, go for it CC!!! It would be real nice to be able to by pants in the fit I grew up with.
I would be interested in some IS pants. Heck!, I could even help you draw up some of the tech-packs and introduce you to some manufacturers. The really tricky part will be nailing the fit that suits most of the guys. Maybe you could have a fitting party?
I would be very interested! If you do this, PLEASE post basic measurements for EACH size. Actual waist, rise, thigh, ankle. Descriptors like “True-to-size” or “Fits slim” are useless.
I find this project to be slightly interesting, but I’m perfectly happy to wear what’s available today (M2 khakis) instead of worrying about details that might (or might not) reflect how a bunch of college kids dressed in the past. Sometimes pants are just pants. Plus, being a successful, middle-aged man, I definitely have enough clothes to last me the rest of my life. Perhaps even too many. Just my opinion, of course. As they say on the internet, YMMV.
Yes, if I could get them in a narrow twill with a very crisp finish, the opposite of pre-washed, sort of like Ben Silver’s English drills. An extra nice touch would be to also have a belt in the back.
In the army, in the late seventies I wore khakis that fit like this every day and loved them. I’ve been searching for something like them ever since. They were the most comfortable slacks I’ve ever owned. I liked the khaki shirt with two breast pockets too.
Although readers here may not like it, these were after the army had gone to a no iron blend for the fabric. They held the original crease and could be machine washed and worn, although we had to lightly ironed them to pass inspection.
When I was in the army in the late ’80s we had BDUs. At one point we weren’t even supposed to iron them (we did anyway) because that was said to decrease the effectiveness of chemicals in the material that were designed to thwart IR sensors. And if you followed the recommended sizing guide, they ended up being way too big for you. (I eventually wore Small/Short in BDUs, and I’m a 38R in suits.) But the old BDUs were definitely effective and hard-wearing. In Iraq in ’91 I wore a pair for a week that were covered in vomit and diarrhea and had a few holes torn in them by angry Iraqis (armor doesn’t cover everything). And they were under chemical protective over-garments all that time.
Maybe BDUs will be considered classic or timeless style at some point in the future? If you wear the recommended size, they’re actually extremely comfortable. But they’re dangerously close to the cargo pants that seem to be universally reviled by people here.
Absolutely would go for high-rise, slimmer leg khakis.
I, too, wear Bill’s Khakis M2, which are great but a little baggy, so I tend not to wear them with a jacket. I also have a pair of Sid Mashburn (made in Brooklyn — Hertling?). I like the quality, and the width of the leg, but the rise is too low. Brooks Brothers Clark model fits well, but they are wrinkle-free, and because of the chemicals wear out quickly in the hem.
Narrow leg, regular rise trousers have been available for a while at Joe Banks. Right now, I am wearing their VIP, or “Vacation In Paradise” Khakis that fit exactly like the ones pictured. I don’t understand the snobby disdain some people have for JAB. Very good quality at reasonable prices. Is it just because they run kitchy sales like buy 1 get 12 free?
I found this site, wwiiimpressions.com a few years ago and I wonder if anyone has ever tried a pair of the khakis they have for sale. They look like a decent fit. Long rise. Not too baggy looking. 8.2 oz. The army officers khakis.
If folks are going to cosplay, why not be the supplier of choice. I’d say a smart business move but from the posts above the cosplayers want the look but don’t want to spend the cash.
People should just listen to Boyer and avoid creating a personal costume. Tapered pants are for women. At least they will match the tight blouses men are trying to pass off as a proper dress shirt these days.
Or god forbid you spend the cash and have a set of bespoke pants made…
I have been buying Brooks Brothers Black Fleece trousers when I can get them on sale or on ebay. These have have an 11 to 11.5 inch rise and a slim fit. However even these have to be tapered from the knee down to get an 8 inch hem width, probably due to my 29″ inseam (in BB1). I would be very interested in another option at a better price point.
E: Get your panties out of a bunch. I’ll bet since you read this site you probably don’t wear a tee shirt all day, and that your friends probably think you’re a cosplayer too.
Cruiser: Thanks for your valuable input.
MAC, Zahn, etc: My LE tall/long rise trousers have a 13″ rise to what’s marked a 34″ waist but measures at 36″. The lady says they don’t look like Urkel pants, but I’m also 6′ tall. Is the happy medium between dweeb and sophisticate 12″? Also when I did have custom made trousers I had a 16″ leg opening and it came out great.
DCG
All the dimensions change in proportion to the size of the pant. A size 32 waist pant will have different dimensions of a size 36. Usually manufactures give the various dimensions of a size 34 pant as a base. One’s inseam on a pair of unfinished tapered pants would differ the cuff circumference, for example a shorter inseam means a larger cuff opening. Have I confused you enough? 😉
The Cobin pants in the advert aren’t as tapered as the artwork presents.
No gentleman over age 25 should be caught dead running around in “slim” legged-trousers.
Let me clarify.
Tapered pants are fine if you work as a professional matador (ole!), cruise the resorts looking for lonely rich widows, live in Scotland (Trews), or perform on stage in various capacities.They are strictly for lucky youths who haven’t lived long enough yet to know the meaning of the inevitable word “fat.”
No, I’m not suggesting that we go back to floppy bell-bottoms, but in my opinion a mature man looks more elegant in trousers that fall gracefully from his expanding girth.
Hitchcock’s avoirdupois didn’t prevent him from outfitting Cary Grant in tapering trousers, though I’m sure he was jealous. Even Cary Grant said he wished he were Cary Grant!
Tapered is a bit ambiguous. It can be something to be wary of, but Cary Grant’s above are quite generous and not solely suitable for Take Ivy reenactors, gigolos etc; although they are tapered it is true.
My favorite, most comfortable pants were the late 1970s RL Polos. Tapered to the knee then stove piped. Woody Allen wore them in “Annie Hall”, I guessing Diane Keaton did to.
We’ve created a similar silhouette, albeit a bit more relaxed in the hip and thigh, from Khaki Cramerton Cloth, in a small factory in NYC. We did them in both buckle back and without. The non buckle back ones were definitely more popular. Admittedly they’re a little more inspired by the original military version than the 60’s campus versions…check them out here: thoroughstitch.com
S.E.
Actually by the 80s Polo RL pants stop doing the details like the welted seam down the out outside of the leg, flap rear pockets and the interior front gusset to keep the pleats from spreading at the waist, to name a few.
Of course they also bought out those hideous lower rise wash chinos sometime in the early 80s.
I am new to this site but have spent the last 2 weeks reading selected posts from the very first. Have enjoyed it thoroughly and laugh at the arguments that go back and forth as to what is the “proper” Ivy look.
If someone is looking for a pattern to model some long rise, flat front trousers on, I have a suggestion. 22 years ago I found some gently used US Army wool trousers from the early 1950’s. They are commonly known as M1951 Wool Trousers. Ask Andy About Clothes had a post on these pants a few years ago. The ones I was lucky enough to procure had flapped back pockets with the button hole hidden on the underside of the flap. Adjustment tabs on both sides, full button fly and a drape that is very flattering. Like Andy, I had mine cuffed as they do tend to run longer than the specs say they do. One pair was made by Henry I. Siegel and the other by Hardwick Woolen Mills of Tennessee.
One could probably get a pair from e-bay to deconstruct and make a pattern.The legs are cut more full than the preferred Ivy style chinos which may not agree with some. But the rise is perfect and they would look nice in a dark khaki cotton twill.
I’m excited to hear that the samples are ready. I hope that you find them good enough to endorse and pass along to us. Any idea of where the price point might fall for a pair? Even a range?
What a coincidence as I met with Bruce Boyer yesterday to check out the sample. Paul Winston also saw them, as well as Len Logsdail.
All were impressed. It’s not an extreme cut, but definitely there’s a fuller rise and a taper to the leg that’s far from extreme. The pant got rave reviews all around.
It may be ready in eight weeks or so, and we may be able to announce it with pre-orders before that.
I just got an update from our partner and I’m afraid the news is a little disappointing. Production has been held up due to a fabric delivery problem, something that rarely happens. Sit tight.
@CC, thanks for the update. As a consolation prize, can you share with us any of the design details of the pants? I know you said not to expect anything special (like a back buckle), but perhaps you could let us in on things like the weight of the fabric, or weather one or both of the back pockets will have flaps? Are the side pockets on seam, and what about the leg opening?
Guys, I spoke with our manufacturing partner yesterday and found out the reason for the delay. The company is in the middle of a complicated business matter. There is still a small chance we will be ready before Christmas, but if not set a few dollars aside for the new year. Thanks for your patience and I hope they turn out to be worth waiting for.
Yes! Is this going to happen or what? At 6’4″ and ~175 pounds, this is exactly what I need in my pants. Sick of slim legs but crappy ball-hugging rises!
Our original partner for this was Bills Khakis, which is going through restructuring. Coincidentally though just today I was approached by another company. Stay tuned.
Is there no off-the-rack maker willing to do this? Guston makes pre-order only jeans at a profit. All sorts of brands do limited-run collaborations. WHY hasn’t the demand for high-waist, tapered leg been addressed? Doesn’t any maker look at ebay search term history?
To be honest, the only way that I would purchase a pair is if their price was lower than a wide-legged pair taken in by my tailor. The fit will always be better that way, so why pay more?
I have had the leg narrowed on some khakis and others I have kept as I purchased them. I am interested in purchasing a pair if you get the project going.
And I remember the days when one had to have one’s khakis custom-made when one wanted them “baggy”.
For the good of the cause I would purchase them if not for the idea of bespoke khakis alone.
I think these would be fantastic! I would love a pair of chinos like this and I would buy them in a heartbeat. I would love them unhemmed as well, so I could have my tailor cuff them at the length I want easily.
Yes!
This sounds like a great idea. I had a pair of khakis that tapered made by–of all makers–Talbots when they also made men’s clothing. I loved these pants. They were finally retired this year because they had become too threadbare.
Yes, absolutely! Make them in two colors if you can. One a faded, warm-toned khaki like you see on Bill’s Khakis, Jack Donnelly, and Ralph Lauren chinos. The other a cool-toned, more saturated khaki like you see on Tuki West Point chinos. I would get a pair in the latter color. I’ve seen A.P.C. take this approach with trench coats, sweaters, etc., and it is wonderful.
Yes!! I know that Billax has a term for this cut, but I cannot remember what it is. It would not seem too hard for a manufacturer. Just make a long rise with a tailored fit khaki.
Where could one actually get a pair of – albeit wide-legged – full rise trousers? I have had found a pair at Brooks maybe 5 years ago, but virtually every store I visit seems to have moved to the awful-fitting and extremely uncomfortable 8″ rise garbage.
I would definitely grab a pair of these if they were to go in production.
I’d be very interested. I currently go with Bill’s Khakis in the M2 cut, which are still a bit full, and I think the price is too high at around $150. I have not tried the O’Connell’s khakis that go for just under $100, nor the “Ultimate Khakis” from Orvis at $98, which look good, at least in the catalog, but I imagine I would need to have them narrowed as well. If this new venture yields a proper fit out of the box, that would be a definite plus.
Hertling?
Do want
But preferably in a navy option too. Some peoples’ complexions + khaki do not mix
Yes! Depending on price, I certainly would purchase a pair or two. What’s being described sounds like the cut of original Levi Sta-Prest, which certainly isn’t a bad thing.
Tell your non-tradly friends that this is the wave of the future, low rise is on the way out!
I’d certainly be interested. I’ve all but given up entirely on khakis for the time being for the reasons stated above. Either the leg is slim and the rise is too low, or the rise is decent and the leg is a parachute.
Put me down for a pair, obviously. And waist sizes below 32 please.
Definitely interested…been looking for something like this for a long time!!
Christian
When might this take place? And, if a go, when would more details become available?
This will probably happen very soon. Definitely not something that’s 12-18 months in development. Quite possibly this fall.
If only this would catch on, and then we could move on to longer and looser jackets that have some semblance of drape, rather than looking like they’re about to launch the fastening button clean across the room once it gives way. Then men could relearn the art of the sensible tie knot. But yes, this would be a big step in the right direction.
CORBIN! was the standard at one time.
I don’t know about you guys, but I find the Registered Trademark in the ad above hilarious. “Natural Shoulder Trousers”? That’s funny.
We’re pretty lucky in Portugal because there’s a very cheap brand which sells high-rise chinos with slim leg. It may be too slim for most but it’s a really nice bargain (24,99€). The smallest size (EU 42) has a leg opening of 7 inches. You can check them at https://mo-online.com/pt/homem/categorias/calcas/823279-calca-chino-slim-fit-
Yes!
Ditto on Worried Man’s comment. Make some in size 28, too!
Jose,
Those pants in the ad you linked to look like some real peen pinchers to me.
…and they don’t look to have a high rise (Jose’s link)
and yes count me in.
Christian
You seem to be describing O’Connell’s pants.
“(Ralph) and Joe Barrato, his friend from Brooks Brothers, had been lunching out regularly ever since Barrato got out of the army and joined Corbin, a trouser company, in 1963. In the mid-sixties, the well-dressed Traditional customer wore Rivetz ties, Corbin pants, Southwick natural-shoulder jackets, Gant shirts, a Canterbury belt, and Bass Weejuns. Ralph told Joe he wanted to bring them all together – in slightly more sophisticated versions – under the Polo banner.”
http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Authentic-Real-Ralph-Lauren/dp/0060199040
Sounds great. I too have trouble with most brands. Bills have a good rise but are a bit too baggy…and expensive. Just got two pair of Oris “ultimate” khakis. They have a decent fit in the waste and rise but the legs are quite big. Ralph Lauren don’t fit right anywhere. Build them and I’ll sure give them a try.
@MAC
I’m describing O’Connell’s when I mentioned having pants tapered by the tailor!
My God,Man! You’re a fencing champion, you’re suppose to have legs. 😉
My calfs will never fit in a narrow-leg. Also, I’m concerned about the inseam turning over onto the knee while seated. This seems to happen often with this style, at least for me.
Marty — Thanks for confirming what I suspected about the baggy Orvis fit. And MAC — Interesting list of heyday staples from the RL book. The university shops in various towns around Virginia all carried Corbins in the 70s and 80s and indeed it was my preferred khaki (along with Duck Heads, which had the advantage of costing half as much) for years. They are still around, but I do not know how they fit these days.
I’d buy a pair if they aren’t too exorbitantly priced. How high of a rise are we talking? Taper or no, I haven’t found a high enough rise for me from any of the usual suspects.
Where have these been for the past 40 years? Yes, I would try them if the price is reasonable.
I’ve been looking for these for years, and would buy them without hesitation so long as they don’t cost more than other reasonable quality chinos plus alterations (around $150?).
This is exactly the khaki I personally seek–i.e., comparatively higher rise, appropriately tapering to a dimension appropriate for the trouser waist size–“sleek.” I have purchased, presumably like many members of this Forum, Bill’s Khakis in the model 3 seeking such a trouser. Unfortunately as Bill’s somewhat trim and taper this model, they lower the rise as well. Perhaps one, with the force of this Forum, could approach Bill’s to come out with a “model 4” which would fill the need for a tapered, more modern trouser silhouette. Their trousers otherwise are well made and U.S. manufactured–the price point with Bill’s may well remain an issue. Other manufacturers/suppliers?
Christian,
I would love to see you succeed where I have failed (even with help from Worried Man & Billax). Part 1 has some useful ratio numbers. Good luck!
Collegiate Cut Chinos Part 1- http://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2013/11/collegiate-cut-chinos-part-1/
Collegiate Cut Chinos Part 2- http://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2013/11/collegiate-cut-chinos-part-two-jack-donnelly-khakis/
Collegiate Cut Chinos Part 3- http://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2014/01/collegiate-cut-chinos-part-3-the-vintage-route/
Collegiate Cut Chinos Part 4- http://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2014/03/collegiate-cut-chinos-part-4-the-saga-continues/
Are there no other old-timers out there who will confess how uncomfortable those slim-cut khakis were? Yes, they were high-rise, but that wasn’t enough, hence the return to fuller cut pants.
Count me in! High rise looks great with a sport coat…
I’ve now converted to BB ‘Hudson’ cut. Best I’ve found off the rack.
I would definitely be interested in a high-rise, slimmer-fit cut. However, one of my issues is that pretty much all typical trouser leg widths are too narrow for my thighs.
Hudson is a bit ‘loose’ but close enough. If these could be improved, I’d be very happy!
Then, I’d want them in mid-grey tropical wool…
Need some odd waist sizes- 31,33,35,37. This feature is often missing today.
Excellent. Most American-made trousers look like they were cut for two occupants.
Most definitely! Sounds like a great idea, I’m in. Please keep us in the loop. Thanks
Yes please, preferably unhemmed.
During the heyday, adults didn’t have waists smaller than 32″.
Ivy fetishists who do are advised to put on weight unless they want to be accused of not being authentic.
As long as I don’t have to totally remove my feet to get them on, go for it CC!!! It would be real nice to be able to by pants in the fit I grew up with.
I would be interested in some IS pants. Heck!, I could even help you draw up some of the tech-packs and introduce you to some manufacturers. The really tricky part will be nailing the fit that suits most of the guys. Maybe you could have a fitting party?
I just ran to get my credit card. Where’s the order form?
I’d be interested in picking up a pair. They’d look fantastic with a 1.75″ cuff on them.
Put me down for a pair. A coin pocket would be much appreciated.
Christian
I heard that O’Connell’s better pants were made in the Bronx and the drills and poplins down South.
Also, the Corbin model in the advert would be the STOVER.
I would be very interested! If you do this, PLEASE post basic measurements for EACH size. Actual waist, rise, thigh, ankle. Descriptors like “True-to-size” or “Fits slim” are useless.
I find this project to be slightly interesting, but I’m perfectly happy to wear what’s available today (M2 khakis) instead of worrying about details that might (or might not) reflect how a bunch of college kids dressed in the past. Sometimes pants are just pants. Plus, being a successful, middle-aged man, I definitely have enough clothes to last me the rest of my life. Perhaps even too many. Just my opinion, of course. As they say on the internet, YMMV.
Yes, if I could get them in a narrow twill with a very crisp finish, the opposite of pre-washed, sort of like Ben Silver’s English drills. An extra nice touch would be to also have a belt in the back.
Now that Fred Egan Castleberry is a made to measure tailor I plan to use him for all my clothes.
In the army, in the late seventies I wore khakis that fit like this every day and loved them. I’ve been searching for something like them ever since. They were the most comfortable slacks I’ve ever owned. I liked the khaki shirt with two breast pockets too.
Although readers here may not like it, these were after the army had gone to a no iron blend for the fabric. They held the original crease and could be machine washed and worn, although we had to lightly ironed them to pass inspection.
I would definitely get a pair, but I’d need a 31 waist
Are these gigolo-cut slacks with a high-rise?
@Frederic
Most European-made trousers are made for narcissists.
That’s certainly true of my Italian-made Polo flannels!
@mike,
When I was in the army in the late ’80s we had BDUs. At one point we weren’t even supposed to iron them (we did anyway) because that was said to decrease the effectiveness of chemicals in the material that were designed to thwart IR sensors. And if you followed the recommended sizing guide, they ended up being way too big for you. (I eventually wore Small/Short in BDUs, and I’m a 38R in suits.) But the old BDUs were definitely effective and hard-wearing. In Iraq in ’91 I wore a pair for a week that were covered in vomit and diarrhea and had a few holes torn in them by angry Iraqis (armor doesn’t cover everything). And they were under chemical protective over-garments all that time.
Maybe BDUs will be considered classic or timeless style at some point in the future? If you wear the recommended size, they’re actually extremely comfortable. But they’re dangerously close to the cargo pants that seem to be universally reviled by people here.
can we spring for a buckle-back option?
That was part of the original plan but I think it would be a dealbreaker for the fuddies. Then again the fuddies probably don’t want a slim leg.
Sounds very interesting. Not too slim please.
Absolutely would go for high-rise, slimmer leg khakis.
I, too, wear Bill’s Khakis M2, which are great but a little baggy, so I tend not to wear them with a jacket. I also have a pair of Sid Mashburn (made in Brooklyn — Hertling?). I like the quality, and the width of the leg, but the rise is too low. Brooks Brothers Clark model fits well, but they are wrinkle-free, and because of the chemicals wear out quickly in the hem.
Narrow leg, regular rise trousers have been available for a while at Joe Banks. Right now, I am wearing their VIP, or “Vacation In Paradise” Khakis that fit exactly like the ones pictured. I don’t understand the snobby disdain some people have for JAB. Very good quality at reasonable prices. Is it just because they run kitchy sales like buy 1 get 12 free?
I found this site, wwiiimpressions.com a few years ago and I wonder if anyone has ever tried a pair of the khakis they have for sale. They look like a decent fit. Long rise. Not too baggy looking. 8.2 oz. The army officers khakis.
Hey guys,
Don’t overthink it: http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/22821?page=double-l-chinos-classic-fit-plain-front
If folks are going to cosplay, why not be the supplier of choice. I’d say a smart business move but from the posts above the cosplayers want the look but don’t want to spend the cash.
People should just listen to Boyer and avoid creating a personal costume. Tapered pants are for women. At least they will match the tight blouses men are trying to pass off as a proper dress shirt these days.
Or god forbid you spend the cash and have a set of bespoke pants made…
Please, would love that cut to come back. Corbin slacks were darn near the best pant ever made. Best fit, best fabric, best cut.
I have been buying Brooks Brothers Black Fleece trousers when I can get them on sale or on ebay. These have have an 11 to 11.5 inch rise and a slim fit. However even these have to be tapered from the knee down to get an 8 inch hem width, probably due to my 29″ inseam (in BB1). I would be very interested in another option at a better price point.
Yes, please! Look forward to updates.
I’m happy with my khakis from Penneys.
Michael Zahn & others.
We should all get on the same page, otherwise these measurements get confusing. For example: “8 inch hem width” is a 16 inch cuff,etc.
Corbin Stover model had an 11-1/4 rise, 20-1/4 knee and 16 or 17 cuff.
E: Get your panties out of a bunch. I’ll bet since you read this site you probably don’t wear a tee shirt all day, and that your friends probably think you’re a cosplayer too.
Cruiser: Thanks for your valuable input.
MAC, Zahn, etc: My LE tall/long rise trousers have a 13″ rise to what’s marked a 34″ waist but measures at 36″. The lady says they don’t look like Urkel pants, but I’m also 6′ tall. Is the happy medium between dweeb and sophisticate 12″? Also when I did have custom made trousers I had a 16″ leg opening and it came out great.
DCG
A 13″ rise is a lot, more like a high rise than regular. But, more power to you, wear what you enjoy. Ditto to Cruiser.
MAC I guess my question would be is rise something that, historically, would have changed depending on waist size and inseam?
As someone who has Pixie Stick-thin legs, pants like the one you’re suggest are a godsend for me, both in rise and fit. So here’s an outright YES!
Good luck designing a pant by committee!
Why not just go the hell for it?
http://www.dickies.com/mens-clothing/mens-bib-overalls/Bib-Overall-DB100.jsp
DCG
All the dimensions change in proportion to the size of the pant. A size 32 waist pant will have different dimensions of a size 36. Usually manufactures give the various dimensions of a size 34 pant as a base. One’s inseam on a pair of unfinished tapered pants would differ the cuff circumference, for example a shorter inseam means a larger cuff opening. Have I confused you enough? 😉
The Cobin pants in the advert aren’t as tapered as the artwork presents.
S.E.
That’s a poor man’s ski bibs, well that and four spray cans of 3M Scotchgard. 😉
Great idea!
No gentleman over age 25 should be caught dead running around in “slim” legged-trousers.
Let me clarify.
Tapered pants are fine if you work as a professional matador (ole!), cruise the resorts looking for lonely rich widows, live in Scotland (Trews), or perform on stage in various capacities.They are strictly for lucky youths who haven’t lived long enough yet to know the meaning of the inevitable word “fat.”
No, I’m not suggesting that we go back to floppy bell-bottoms, but in my opinion a mature man looks more elegant in trousers that fall gracefully from his expanding girth.
@Groton76
Always a pleasure to read a comment from a sensible man.
@groton76
I’ll be happy to wear my bills m2s today and find something else to whine about. Thanks for setting things straight.
Full rise – yes
Narrow leg – no. A great deal of men, myslef included, have large calfs so cannot wear such items.
BV
So this isn’t your ideal look” 😉
http://www.thesartorialist.com/photos/on-the-street-greene-st-new-york-10/
Hitchcock’s avoirdupois didn’t prevent him from outfitting Cary Grant in tapering trousers, though I’m sure he was jealous. Even Cary Grant said he wished he were Cary Grant!
http://theredlist.com/media/database/muses/icon/iconic_men/1950/alfred-hitchcock/010-alfred-hitchcock-theredlist.jpg
Encore:
http://www.doctormacro.com/Images/Grant,%20Cary/Annex/Annex%20-%20Grant,%20Cary%20(North%20by%20Northwest)_06.jpg
Tapered is a bit ambiguous. It can be something to be wary of, but Cary Grant’s above are quite generous and not solely suitable for Take Ivy reenactors, gigolos etc; although they are tapered it is true.
Another option?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2536/4138749268_7f018a663c_o.jpg
Proper trousers:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-n2OLsbXX2aI/UZbHcqtMXSI/AAAAAAAAETc/RYz7uj30g-s/s1600/1-IMG_0005.jpg
My favorite, most comfortable pants were the late 1970s RL Polos. Tapered to the knee then stove piped. Woody Allen wore them in “Annie Hall”, I guessing Diane Keaton did to.
@MAC.
Yes! The reincarnation was an 80s era PoloRL “G.I. Pant.”
The detail was premium and the Gabs were like wearing pajamas to work. 😉
We’ve created a similar silhouette, albeit a bit more relaxed in the hip and thigh, from Khaki Cramerton Cloth, in a small factory in NYC. We did them in both buckle back and without. The non buckle back ones were definitely more popular. Admittedly they’re a little more inspired by the original military version than the 60’s campus versions…check them out here: thoroughstitch.com
S.E.
Actually by the 80s Polo RL pants stop doing the details like the welted seam down the out outside of the leg, flap rear pockets and the interior front gusset to keep the pleats from spreading at the waist, to name a few.
Of course they also bought out those hideous lower rise wash chinos sometime in the early 80s.
Oxford Cloth Button Down
You’re over thinking it, you look great in those pants, they fit.
No offence to “Worried man” but his pants don’t fit. If your pockets gap, your pants don’t fit.
Tapered or not, the two most important fits for a pair of pants in one’s hips and rise. The waist comes in third.
The Polo G.I. Pant was fantastic. Sadly my only pair wore out several years ago.
Yes!
Yes! This is an excellent idea!
Mac, interesting that you pointed out the pocket bulge on those pants, as I actually had the seat let out a bit, which remedied it.
Worried Man
Good eye.
Yes
I wonder what percentage of American men today have ever worn a pair of comfortable trousers. The percentage would be even be lower in Europe.
Mac,
Thank you. I came to a similar conclusion.
Have just been informed the manufacturer should have a sample ready by the end of July.
This just posted at Put This On:
http://putthison.com/post/123038195706/high-rise-slim-leg-trousers-around-the-corner-one
Hi!
I saw this on PTO today and thought it sounded pretty cool. Looking forward to seeing how they turn out.
I am new to this site but have spent the last 2 weeks reading selected posts from the very first. Have enjoyed it thoroughly and laugh at the arguments that go back and forth as to what is the “proper” Ivy look.
If someone is looking for a pattern to model some long rise, flat front trousers on, I have a suggestion. 22 years ago I found some gently used US Army wool trousers from the early 1950’s. They are commonly known as M1951 Wool Trousers. Ask Andy About Clothes had a post on these pants a few years ago. The ones I was lucky enough to procure had flapped back pockets with the button hole hidden on the underside of the flap. Adjustment tabs on both sides, full button fly and a drape that is very flattering. Like Andy, I had mine cuffed as they do tend to run longer than the specs say they do. One pair was made by Henry I. Siegel and the other by Hardwick Woolen Mills of Tennessee.
One could probably get a pair from e-bay to deconstruct and make a pattern.The legs are cut more full than the preferred Ivy style chinos which may not agree with some. But the rise is perfect and they would look nice in a dark khaki cotton twill.
The sample is ready! Presently being dispatched to Ivy Style headquarters.
Hertling
Wilson waist,Como Leg
Full Waist tapered leg….add a back buckle
@Christian
I’m excited to hear that the samples are ready. I hope that you find them good enough to endorse and pass along to us. Any idea of where the price point might fall for a pair? Even a range?
What a coincidence as I met with Bruce Boyer yesterday to check out the sample. Paul Winston also saw them, as well as Len Logsdail.
All were impressed. It’s not an extreme cut, but definitely there’s a fuller rise and a taper to the leg that’s far from extreme. The pant got rave reviews all around.
It may be ready in eight weeks or so, and we may be able to announce it with pre-orders before that.
A photo of someone wearing the prototype pants would be great.
Update: don’t blow the bank with your fall shopping. Keep a few bucks handy as we’ll launch mid-October.
Any idea on when the pants will be available?
ANXIOUSLY WAITING FOR AVAILABILITY !!!
Glad to see I’m not the only one checking back obsessively right at mid-October for an update.
I just got an update from our partner and I’m afraid the news is a little disappointing. Production has been held up due to a fabric delivery problem, something that rarely happens. Sit tight.
@CC, thanks for the update. As a consolation prize, can you share with us any of the design details of the pants? I know you said not to expect anything special (like a back buckle), but perhaps you could let us in on things like the weight of the fabric, or weather one or both of the back pockets will have flaps? Are the side pockets on seam, and what about the leg opening?
Anything you can share would be appreciated!
Guys, I spoke with our manufacturing partner yesterday and found out the reason for the delay. The company is in the middle of a complicated business matter. There is still a small chance we will be ready before Christmas, but if not set a few dollars aside for the new year. Thanks for your patience and I hope they turn out to be worth waiting for.
I would purchase immediately! I realize this comment thread is dead, but add me to the list of proponents.
I was thinking about this the other day, too. Thanks for the update.
@Christian,
This is exciting. I’m always looking for tapered, high-waist 60s vintage trousers on eBay and such, but it’s not easy.
One note: could you include a size 29 (in my case) or even from 28~ for us smaller-framed guys? If so, I’m in!
Yes! Is this going to happen or what? At 6’4″ and ~175 pounds, this is exactly what I need in my pants. Sick of slim legs but crappy ball-hugging rises!
Our original partner for this was Bills Khakis, which is going through restructuring. Coincidentally though just today I was approached by another company. Stay tuned.
Let’s hope it works out.
did anything ever come about on this?
Project was with Bills Khakis, which got into trouble so project cancelled. Stay tuned for our necktie and jacket projects coming soon.
With J Crew 770 chinos and Bonobos slim fit, I already have quality slim chinos that sit at the waist and fit very comfortably.
I would absolutely buy some!
Man. Brooks Brothers Hudson fit lowered the rise…
Is there no off-the-rack maker willing to do this? Guston makes pre-order only jeans at a profit. All sorts of brands do limited-run collaborations. WHY hasn’t the demand for high-waist, tapered leg been addressed? Doesn’t any maker look at ebay search term history?