Brooks Brothers Inc., the two-century-old menswear company that set the standard for aspiring Wall Street bankers, is seeking to sell itself.
The retailer has extended a sale process begun last year, according to people familiar with the matter who asked not to be identified because it wasn’t public. Depending on how many stores a buyer wanted, a transaction could ultimately be part of a bankruptcy filing, they said. The company has about $600 million in debt.
“In the ordinary course of business, Brooks Brothers consistently explores various strategic options to position the company for growth and success,” a company representative said in an email. The company has “nothing to announce at this time.”
Even as some states start to ease lockdowns aimed at containing the coronavirus pandemic, it remains to be seen how quickly consumers will return to stores and how much they’ll spend. While even the affluent Brooks Bros. clientele has little need for new suits at the moment, the brand’s history and cache has elicited interest, the people said.
Many of the company’s approximately 250 U.S. locations have struggled, some of the people said. It operates a similar number of stores in more than 40 other countries, according to its website.
And GQ is reporting that J. Crew is apparently filing for bankruptcy:
There’s no use getting overly emotional about a store filing for bankruptcy; the phrase “the end of an era” is so hackneyed at this point it’s basically useless. But…this is an end of an era! J.Crew was without a doubt the most important store a generation of guys: the ones who had only the mall, a well-made Barbour jacket, and a slim suit to stoke their interest in menswear over a decade ago. It’s no exaggeration that the store taught a generation of men how to dress better. At one point, J.Crew was responsible for dressing so many guys that a single gingham shirt could sustain an entire Instagram account.
Remember, when one cycle ends, another begins. — CC
I hope they both survive. I won’t know where to shop anymore without them. What is will do is severely restrict my clothing expenditures. None of which I really need to make anyhow.
Both of these are valuable brands, and it’s entirely possible that I cash infusion the new management may cause them both to be stronger in the future, and to provide more appealing to their niche markets. And even if not, the demand is there, perhaps small, but steady, and generally well-funded, and someone will supply it.
The GQ article appears to say that J. Crew’s bankruptcy means “it’s over,” but bankruptcy can be either liquidation or restructuring. If it’s restructuring, the brand will continue, possible less burdened with debt if it secures some degree of discharge.
Regarding BB, if it is bought by a publicly-traded company, the pressure to find “efficiencies” by eliminating its remaining high-profile, low-profit domestic manufacturing in N.C., N.Y. and Mass. will be enormous. For all the havoc and alienation the “creative” influences of Thom Browne and Zac Posen have caused, at least Del Vecchio has preserved the domestic factories. Who knows whether the next owner will place any non-quantifiable value on these entities, or whether a quick profit boost from selling Malaysian manufactured OCBDs at the same price as the Garland ones will rule the day.
I agree with @Taliesin. The J Crew brand still has value and it will attract interest from the likes of private equity funds and conglomerates like LVMH. The big question is what the purchaser will do with it.
Brooks Brothers has too many stores and too much debt. It’s hard too see a buyer taking on the company in its current form. After a bankruptcy filing, a smaller BB could appeal to Chinese or Japanese investors.
I’m just a lawyer with no knowledge of the clothing business beyond what I have picked up talking with salesmen over the years, so I have no idea whether there is enough of a market to make Brooks Brothers viable. My hope is for a Brooks, greatly reduced in size, but still alive, once the debt is stripped away.
I won’t miss the mall and airport stores, but I hope the name and the 44th and Madison store survive. I think they probably could sustain brick and mortar locations in Washington, Boston, Atlanta and a perhaps some other U.S. cities, as well as a few cities in Europe and Asia, plus the online/catalog business. At least if they can provide good quality clothing, but I fear that the name alone may survive, plastered on junk, like the once venerable Abercrombie & Fitch.
As for Southwick and Garland, hopefully, someone will buy them and keep those traditional makers going. I sincerely hope that J. Press withstands this ill wind, and wonder how Allen Edmonds and Alden are doing.
I remember reading somewhere that Ralph Lauren was interested in buying Brooks Brothers back in the ’80s, before they were ultimately purchased by Marks & Spencer. I think it would be great if the Ralph Lauren Corporation could acquire Brooks Brothers today. I know the commentariat here has mixed feelings about Ralph and his company, but I think when they set their minds to making the good stuff, they do a great job of it. If any American company could resuscitate Brooks Brothers and bring it back to its roots – while also making it profitable and appealing to enough customers to sustain the company – Ralph Lauren would be it.
In 1971 Brooks had 11 stores. From Garfinkels, to Allied, to Marks, to the current owners every iteration sought to “grow the brand” at the expense of its core customers. I doubt anyone will make that mistake again. J Press and Mercer serve my needs now. As late as the 80s Brooks had distinctive items as well as “basics” with both variety and quality. Today we’ve reached a point where a man may walk in and out of 44th Street without temptation.
with all the looks and styles available to people, including the well-educated and rich (not always synonymous, but frequently connected if clumsily connected), it makes sense that Ivy/Preppy/trad/Old New England style is rarely chosen— rarely picked/selected from the smorgasbord of options. Further, it makes sense that fewer and fewer people would seek out the look, since, for all the talk about “good taste,” it suggests and symbolizes values that have been discarded by the masses— most especially a sort-of stuffy, reserved, erudite modesty. We cannot be surprised to learn that, beyond the boundaries of websites/blogs such as this one, the popular perception (of the look) is bookish and slightly nerdy—square. No matter how many affiliations with heyday era fraternity life or Miles Davis or “shoe” BMOC’s or Steve McQueen or other cool things/people, this perception stubbornly persists.
And so it offends a multitude of sensibilities— simultaneously. The southern redneck despises the blazer, penny loafer, khakis-wearing “preppy” as much as the liberal, Birkenstock-wearing, feminist professor at Wellesley, the skinny-suited hipster, and the designer t-shirt-jeans-and-sneakers wearing hedge fund manager. He provokes their contempt. He is loathed.
This is either part of the style’s charm or not. I suspect it’s a natural fit for a certain sort of contrarian.
Pseudonym, SE, says above that dressing in the way Ivy Style endorses “symbolizes values that have been discarded by the masses— most especially a sort-of stuffy, reserved, erudite modesty.” I wonder if he/she thinks that way, why visit this site other than to be a voice of dissent.
In any event, it is disappointing to hear of Brooks Brothers troubles, self-inflicted or not. I have enjoyed the brand and hope it survives.
It’s Friday after a month of “stay-at-home,” reduced work/income, no bars or restaurants, or church. Almost time for a drink.
Both companies could be purchased by a licensing company. HF and Hart S Marx are structured this way now. Menswearhouse just completed a sale of the Joseph Abboud brand and licensed back the domestic rights. They still own the suit factory.
Well anyway I, for one, am continuing to do all that I can under these trying circumstances to shift those unfortunate perceptions over to one of the gracefully decaying preppy as a worldly and world-weary, a jaded but not jaundiced (the old liver is still ticking over quite nicely, thank you), figure full of puckish mirth and good-cheer.
Feast of St. Joseph the Worker, May 1.
May he be venerated for centuries after Communism is a nothing but a loathsome, bloody, inexplicable passage in the history books.
“TRADITIONALLY, THE MAN WHO FAVORS THE IVY League look is a man who comports himself according to the Protestant work ethic. He values steadiness, reliability and industry. For decades, his uniform has been a Brooks Brothers suit, rep tie and button-down shirt…
…The 1980’s were not especially kind to this man. On Wall Street, his ancient stamping ground, interest turned from blue chips to junk bonds. Traders, the street’s trend-setters, made flashy amounts of money and dressed accordingly, scorning serviceable $500 sack suits in favor of foreign models with $1,000-plus price tags. “
S.E.:
That was very articulately expressed.
I can’t imagine anything better than being despised by southern rednecks. Actually, come to think of it, my wearing Ivy style garb is a badge of my despising them as well.
The whole world is festering
With unhappy souls.
The French hate the Germans,
The Germans hate the Poles;
Italians hate Yugoslavs,
South Africans hate the Dutch,
And I don’t like anybody very much!
Grey Flannels, it’s hilarious that you think rednecks care about you or what you’re wearing. But way to go reinforcing the same stereotypes of us ivy stylers here in the comments. Get a life and stop putting others down, if you wouldn’t mind
T. Barkeley,
Apparently you didn’t read S.E.’s comment, with which Grey Flannels was agreeing:
“The southern redneck despises the blazer, penny loafer, khakis-wearing “preppy” as much as the liberal, Birkenstock-wearing, feminist professor at Wellesley, the skinny-suited hipster, and the designer t-shirt-jeans-and-sneakers wearing hedge fund manager. He provokes their contempt. He is loathed.”
I always knew that southern rednecks hated Jews, Blacks, and Catholics. It was interesting to learn that they also hate us.
I haven’t visited a BB store in years. I’ve been buying their number sized blue boxer shorts for years mail order. Nice to know I’m wearing the same model JFK wore. Normally $45 each, my last were 3 pairs for $67 on sale. A good price on sale.
Other than boxers, I only have a BB repp tie bought in the 1990’s.
Jos A Bank used to sell great boxers, also number sized. Now, JAB sells junk. Just a sign of the times.
Do people really need to desperately scramble to find somebody to hate?
Must there always be some hostile “Other”?
Can’t you just like your clothes, talk to other people who like the same kind of clothes, and realize that in the fathomless immensity of the universe no one else gives a flying fuck about what you wear?
Everything is not about class conflict. That is a Leninist concept. And it is false.
Be cheerful. No one hates you because of your clothes. That’s a good thing.
I think Mike Surname is partially correct. No reason to go around looking for resentments. However, I know that I have been judged by my clothes, sometimes positively and sometimes negatively. A friend of my wife told her that she liked that I dressed well and said “people notice that.” I suppose some do. I certainly notice when someone is well dressed, but most people probably don’t, or else simply wonder why I am wearing a coat and tie and shined shoes when I’m not at a wedding or funeral.
On one occasion many years ago, someone I imagine could be described as a redneck decided that khakis, Top Siders and a crew-neck sweater made me fair game for name calling and threatened to beat me up in the parking lot of a convenience store. I avoided that fate on this occasion. A similar, if less violent, exchange occurred some years later in Long Island City, Queens, where I was visiting a client’s office. More recently a self-described SJW lawyer, originally from Chicago, showered withering contempt on local lawyers in (eye roll) blue blazers, and expressed gratitude that he was not like them (cf. Luke 18:11). On these occasions, I tried not to respond in kind, and I now consider the SJW chap a friend, although I doubt he approves of my wardrobe any more now than then. Similarly I get along very well with several neighbors who are not especially well educated (high school or less), southern, rural, work with their hands and dress accordingly; we are always extremely friendly with each other and I enjoy talking with them.
My point is that there is much more to life than clothing, and that the human tendency to judge others by superficial markers is not limited to a particular region or class. Do I wish my SJW friend dressed better and had fewer tattoos? Sure, but that is his business. Would I love to see a return to Ivy heyday (or even Ivy 1980s) aesthetics? Of course, but it won’t happen. I’ll just dress as I wish, and hopefully some people will find it pleasing, and with luck the rest won’t care enough to hate me for it. And just maybe, Brooks, Southwick, Alden, Garland and Peal will survive in recognizable form. O frabjous day! Well, as the old song goes, I can dream, can’t I?
I had a friend about 15 years ago who was a veteran overseas captain for a big airline and a Viet Nam vet. He had a preference for shell cordovan boots. He told me that the company discouraged the shining of shoes. I didn’t ask why. This discussion has me wondering, do the passengers find it off-putting, or was it because the union did not wish to go down that road? I’m guessing now it was the latter. Instead of just not bringing up the subject, they found it better to informally enforce the lower standard. I remember graduate school in the 90’s some of the undergraduates voicing their disdain for shined shoes, wear as in the 80’s shining shoes was just a part of life. I believe it is a result of later generations growing up without fathers in the home. I cannot find another reasonable explanation.
I was anticipating that this thread would turn into a discussion of how Zac Posen and Thom Browne ruined Brooks Brothers. Neither is a “southern redneck.”
As Sinead O’Connor once said, “Fight the real enemy!”
I remember a funeral where I was almost the only person in a jacket and tie. Most everyone was in the same jeans and t-shirts they wear to everything else.
In any case, with Brooks Brothers operating at break even profitability with $600M of debt to service, someone may be able to acquire BB for free if they were willing to pick up the debt.
The current financial state of BB is sad and unfortunate because I truly love the brand.
Kansas City had a Brooks Brothers on the Country Club Plaza right next to the Polo Shop. This would have been in the early 80s. There was mixed feelings, KC had always had locally owned Ivy men’s shops for many decades and the market seemed to become diluted.
I’m not sure the “red neck” thing is real. Kansas City still has both Brooks and Polo, but they are outlet stores about two blocks from the Kansas Speedway where red necks go to see NASCAR. 😉
I stand corrected, there is also a Brooks in a Leawood, Kansas mall. Leawood is an upscale suburb of the Kansas City Metro area. I was told and assumed it had closed.
There is a guy on ebay named Steve who has a boatload of BB made in North Carolina, must iron button downs, form the Garland factory store which went out of biz. Better get em while they last. He has a few J Press also.
Brooks had a prime location in Austin at 6th and Congress. That’s literally the center of downtown and surrounded by banks, law firms etc. It closed a few years ago. BB has a store at a gigantic outlet mall 30 miles south.
As for rednecks, I would be careful about throwing around negative generalizations about any group of people — especially if you don’t know many of them personally.
As someone above pointed out, Brooks waaaay overextended from a relatively niche, US-based chain to some sort of global empire based on an unconscionable amoutn of debt.
The best thing that can happen to them is that someone buys the viable US stores (like 44th st.) and runs them decently.
In any case, there is of course J press, for the traditionalists, and companies like Mercer that have surpassed Brooks (in this case, on OCBDs) by miles.
Large brick and mortar retailers were having difficulties pre-virus and I cannot imagine too many buyers will want to step forward and purchase BB or J Crew as they exist. Perhaps someone will buy the names and focus on internet only strategy or just a few retail locations similar to Press, Paul Stuart, Ben Silver, etc. at best we can hope for someone to try to restore BB to its heyday glory but, I suspect, any buyer will use name and offshore more production for abysmal quality offerings. Hopefully, O’Connells, Press, Mercer, Rancourt, and Alden will all survive the downturn.
It is yet another “end of an era”. BB has been a hollowed out symbol of what it was and
represented sixty years ago during the Golden Age. I stopped buying their tailored
clothing in the 70s and 80s and changed to Paul Stuart and then Chipp not because of quality issues
but because PS and Chipp were a bit less stodgy and fit me better. When BB became
a “brand” instead of a clothier, that’s when the rot set in. It didn’t help that this move
coincided with the decline in popularity of the Ivy Style. The preppy revival notwithstanding,
BB has been on this course for decades.
A few years ago, before closing a men’s shop that catered to traditional (Ivy) tastes, apparently one of the owners confessed (rather proudly, actually) that, if he was willing to settle for less profit, he could keep the store going.
He had done well–as the story goes, made enough to afford a second home (beach), private schools for his kids, and plenty of hobbies, including golf and a sailboat. Some of you have known owners of such stores, and you know they quickly become accustomed (if they weren’t already) to the lifestyles of of their customers.
When profits spiraled downward, he called it quits. That was that.
I suspect the same is true for the owners of Ben Silver, O’ Connell’s, Eljo’s, and The Andover Shop. If/when that moment comes–when they’re no longer able to live as their (mostly affluent) customers live–they’ll quit and do something else (or retire). One response to this line of thinking is, “Well, that’s capitalism. Creative destruction. Markets and cycles. Businesses come and go. Supply and demand rule the day.” Maybe reason for lament and a deep, sentimental sigh (“Remember when…?”), but, well…
…oh, well.
Another response, different but similar, is the one we’ve received repeatedly throughout the past two decades: when the owners of bricks-and-mortar stores conclude there’s not much of a (significant) profit to be made, other options will prevail. Thanks to the internet, which is in many ways the new version of main street, purveyors of certain goods have thrived– in particular the catering to specific, unique, and even eccentric tastes. Like, for instance, classic OCBDS.
Throughout the past few years, I’ve bought most of my OCBDs from Mercer & Sons and High Bar, which is the online incarnation of Skip Gambert. I’ve bought pants from the great folks at All American Khakis (https://allamericankhakis.com), my socks from the folks at Boardroom Socks (https://boardroomsocks.com), and shoes (Alden) from Sherman Brothers (https://www.shermanbrothers.com/brands/alden/) and The Shoe Mart. For ties, there’s R. Hanauer.
All made in America. And online. Manufacturers who decided to develop a direct (from manufacturer) to customer business.
What’s missing?
An online retailer of blazers and jackets that can avoid overhead costs while using American manufacturing–thus providing a great product and at a reasonable price. Probably, like so many online businesses, the side project of someone who’s making (or already made) his/her profits doing something else. I think Mr. Carlson’s Rowing Blazers is a good example of this. Let’s see if he extends the number of options (fabric) while keeping the price WASP-friendly.
As wonderful and charming and great as the bricks-and-mortar stores were/are, a fact is a fact: we can now find “the good stuff” (as well made as the stuff on Heyday era Squeeze hangers and shelves) online.
I grew up on the Texas coast from the 4th grade onward. There was a local family who were deepwater shrimpers. One of them was huge, with the thick muscles of hard work. His neck was literally crimson. Of course he was called Bubba.
South Vietnamese families were re-located to our coast in the late 70’s, and many got in the crabbing business. It rubbed some locals the wrong way. Up the coast, the Klan took advantage of the ill will to organize against them.
Eventually a Klan organizer showed up at docks near Bubba’s business, but it did not go well for him. You see, Bubba’s family had a French heritage and were Catholic. He knew what the Klan stood for. Bubba grabbed him by the collar of his shirt (probably not an OCBD) with one hand and hurled him into the water. He advised in less-than-gentlemanly terms that the Klansman needed to take his message elsewhere. The Klan’s southward growth stopped right there.
So, would someone like to explain to me what kind of “redneck” Bubba was? Come on. Use your heads for something more than parting your hair.
I’m with RWK: I’ve had mixed feelings about Polo/Ralph Lauren offerings over the years, but at this point he’s probably one of the few who are equipped make a go of reviving Brooks, and maybe even accomplish what Brooks has been trying to do for decades now – reach a broader audience, but do so by highlighting the traditional stuff; making it ‘aspirational’ to new audiences?
Also, per some of the discussion above (and perhaps familiar to RWK and other Old Liners like myself): there are a couple of places on the Eastern Shore (the Bay Country Shop in Cambridge, the Preppy Redneck in St. Michael’s) which occupy a very unique space in this conversation about ‘who wears what’. Maybe they exist elsewhere too. But in such places, “trad” and “redneck” are not mutually exclusive. Just putting that out there.
With the possibility of an impending global depression on the cards, I shall not be worrying about who sells what type of shirt, I shall simply get them made. Dig out that old favourite, impossible-to-get-again shirt and have it copied. This will not break the bank come 2021, well, that is what I am betting on…
This is pretty simple. Let’s face it–these companies are going out of business because there’s barely any market for Ivy clothing anymore. I say this as a Brooks customer for nearly 50 years. I am saddened, but that’s the way it is.
Trace speaks the truth — bluntly and simply. And clearly.
The companies grew too big–way, way too big. (especially Brooks).
Which is why, more and more, attention will be paid to the online merchants. For niche stuff like traditional clothing, this makes all the sense in the world.
Martin…As a longtime customer, I never thought Brooks’ prices were that high, especially if you waited for the annual sales, when major bargains could be had. Now if you want scary, check Ben Silver’s prices.
I’ve got a closet full of clothes and accessories purchased over decades from Brooks, Press, and a hidden gem from ’80s New York called Burton Ltd., plus Jermyn Street shirts. I doubt I’ll ever buy anything new again; I just don’t need it. Still, I can’t pass up bargain; I’ve made many great finds in recent years from second-hand shops.
J Crew was the victim of massive debt piled on several years earlier piled on by the TPG group in a leveraged buyout. J Press had not turned a profit in seven years because of the debt load. The coronavirus was just the straw that broke the back.
GMH – I think you may have meant J. Crew, rather than J. Press, in the second sentence. At least I hope so. I would hate to think that Squeeze is in that sort of shape. I am so thankful that Press resisted the temptation to expand into a chain of mall shops like Brooks. Keeping my fingers crossed for them.
Some here have opined that “rednecks hate trads/preppies.” I wonder, though: is this based on personal experience? The rednecks I’ve known have been, on the whole, decent folks, and are often much kinder than those who wear blazers, penny loafers, and khakis. YMMV.
As for reactions to clothes, yes, everyone notices, at some level, what other people wear. I have found that my jacket, tie, and fedora make me nearly invisible to hoodlums—I am an insignificant blip on their screens, and they leave me and those I’m with alone. Some will actually compliment me on what I wear!
The group that’s most likely to react negatively to my apparel is the SJW crowd. I guess Marxists can’t help but try to engage in class struggle.
Both brooks and JCrew never got the buttondownfour finger collar roll right in recent years
I hope they both survive. I won’t know where to shop anymore without them. What is will do is severely restrict my clothing expenditures. None of which I really need to make anyhow.
BB alienated it’s base and is $600M in the hole. Imagine that.
Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
Both of these are valuable brands, and it’s entirely possible that I cash infusion the new management may cause them both to be stronger in the future, and to provide more appealing to their niche markets. And even if not, the demand is there, perhaps small, but steady, and generally well-funded, and someone will supply it.
Can you really say that it’s a two-century old company when, in reality, all that has been carried forward is the name?
The GQ article appears to say that J. Crew’s bankruptcy means “it’s over,” but bankruptcy can be either liquidation or restructuring. If it’s restructuring, the brand will continue, possible less burdened with debt if it secures some degree of discharge.
Regarding BB, if it is bought by a publicly-traded company, the pressure to find “efficiencies” by eliminating its remaining high-profile, low-profit domestic manufacturing in N.C., N.Y. and Mass. will be enormous. For all the havoc and alienation the “creative” influences of Thom Browne and Zac Posen have caused, at least Del Vecchio has preserved the domestic factories. Who knows whether the next owner will place any non-quantifiable value on these entities, or whether a quick profit boost from selling Malaysian manufactured OCBDs at the same price as the Garland ones will rule the day.
I agree with @Taliesin. The J Crew brand still has value and it will attract interest from the likes of private equity funds and conglomerates like LVMH. The big question is what the purchaser will do with it.
Brooks Brothers has too many stores and too much debt. It’s hard too see a buyer taking on the company in its current form. After a bankruptcy filing, a smaller BB could appeal to Chinese or Japanese investors.
Maybe if BB hadn’t been charging exorbitant prices for years, I’d feel sorry for them.
I’m just a lawyer with no knowledge of the clothing business beyond what I have picked up talking with salesmen over the years, so I have no idea whether there is enough of a market to make Brooks Brothers viable. My hope is for a Brooks, greatly reduced in size, but still alive, once the debt is stripped away.
I won’t miss the mall and airport stores, but I hope the name and the 44th and Madison store survive. I think they probably could sustain brick and mortar locations in Washington, Boston, Atlanta and a perhaps some other U.S. cities, as well as a few cities in Europe and Asia, plus the online/catalog business. At least if they can provide good quality clothing, but I fear that the name alone may survive, plastered on junk, like the once venerable Abercrombie & Fitch.
As for Southwick and Garland, hopefully, someone will buy them and keep those traditional makers going. I sincerely hope that J. Press withstands this ill wind, and wonder how Allen Edmonds and Alden are doing.
I remember reading somewhere that Ralph Lauren was interested in buying Brooks Brothers back in the ’80s, before they were ultimately purchased by Marks & Spencer. I think it would be great if the Ralph Lauren Corporation could acquire Brooks Brothers today. I know the commentariat here has mixed feelings about Ralph and his company, but I think when they set their minds to making the good stuff, they do a great job of it. If any American company could resuscitate Brooks Brothers and bring it back to its roots – while also making it profitable and appealing to enough customers to sustain the company – Ralph Lauren would be it.
In 1971 Brooks had 11 stores. From Garfinkels, to Allied, to Marks, to the current owners every iteration sought to “grow the brand” at the expense of its core customers. I doubt anyone will make that mistake again. J Press and Mercer serve my needs now. As late as the 80s Brooks had distinctive items as well as “basics” with both variety and quality. Today we’ve reached a point where a man may walk in and out of 44th Street without temptation.
with all the looks and styles available to people, including the well-educated and rich (not always synonymous, but frequently connected if clumsily connected), it makes sense that Ivy/Preppy/trad/Old New England style is rarely chosen— rarely picked/selected from the smorgasbord of options. Further, it makes sense that fewer and fewer people would seek out the look, since, for all the talk about “good taste,” it suggests and symbolizes values that have been discarded by the masses— most especially a sort-of stuffy, reserved, erudite modesty. We cannot be surprised to learn that, beyond the boundaries of websites/blogs such as this one, the popular perception (of the look) is bookish and slightly nerdy—square. No matter how many affiliations with heyday era fraternity life or Miles Davis or “shoe” BMOC’s or Steve McQueen or other cool things/people, this perception stubbornly persists.
And so it offends a multitude of sensibilities— simultaneously. The southern redneck despises the blazer, penny loafer, khakis-wearing “preppy” as much as the liberal, Birkenstock-wearing, feminist professor at Wellesley, the skinny-suited hipster, and the designer t-shirt-jeans-and-sneakers wearing hedge fund manager. He provokes their contempt. He is loathed.
This is either part of the style’s charm or not. I suspect it’s a natural fit for a certain sort of contrarian.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKhOUMLGx0
If Brooks dies, so does the Peal & Co. name which hasn’t had much to offer in years anyway. Can Southwick survive?
Pseudonym, SE, says above that dressing in the way Ivy Style endorses “symbolizes values that have been discarded by the masses— most especially a sort-of stuffy, reserved, erudite modesty.” I wonder if he/she thinks that way, why visit this site other than to be a voice of dissent.
In any event, it is disappointing to hear of Brooks Brothers troubles, self-inflicted or not. I have enjoyed the brand and hope it survives.
It’s Friday after a month of “stay-at-home,” reduced work/income, no bars or restaurants, or church. Almost time for a drink.
Be well, maintain humor, and stay safe.
Both companies could be purchased by a licensing company. HF and Hart S Marx are structured this way now. Menswearhouse just completed a sale of the Joseph Abboud brand and licensed back the domestic rights. They still own the suit factory.
I would think the Brooks factories have value.
@ S.E. Contrarian or stubborn bastard?
Well anyway I, for one, am continuing to do all that I can under these trying circumstances to shift those unfortunate perceptions over to one of the gracefully decaying preppy as a worldly and world-weary, a jaded but not jaundiced (the old liver is still ticking over quite nicely, thank you), figure full of puckish mirth and good-cheer.
I encourage others to do the same.
Completely unrelated
Happy may day comrades. I’ll take capitalism, thank you.
Will
Feast of St. Joseph the Worker, May 1.
May he be venerated for centuries after Communism is a nothing but a loathsome, bloody, inexplicable passage in the history books.
https://www.nytimes.com/1990/03/18/magazine/ivy-covers-new-ground.html
“TRADITIONALLY, THE MAN WHO FAVORS THE IVY League look is a man who comports himself according to the Protestant work ethic. He values steadiness, reliability and industry. For decades, his uniform has been a Brooks Brothers suit, rep tie and button-down shirt…
…The 1980’s were not especially kind to this man. On Wall Street, his ancient stamping ground, interest turned from blue chips to junk bonds. Traders, the street’s trend-setters, made flashy amounts of money and dressed accordingly, scorning serviceable $500 sack suits in favor of foreign models with $1,000-plus price tags. “
S.E.:
That was very articulately expressed.
I can’t imagine anything better than being despised by southern rednecks. Actually, come to think of it, my wearing Ivy style garb is a badge of my despising them as well.
@Grey Flannels
The whole world is festering
With unhappy souls.
The French hate the Germans,
The Germans hate the Poles;
Italians hate Yugoslavs,
South Africans hate the Dutch,
And I don’t like anybody very much!
Grey Flannels, it’s hilarious that you think rednecks care about you or what you’re wearing. But way to go reinforcing the same stereotypes of us ivy stylers here in the comments. Get a life and stop putting others down, if you wouldn’t mind
T. Barkeley,
Apparently you didn’t read S.E.’s comment, with which Grey Flannels was agreeing:
“The southern redneck despises the blazer, penny loafer, khakis-wearing “preppy” as much as the liberal, Birkenstock-wearing, feminist professor at Wellesley, the skinny-suited hipster, and the designer t-shirt-jeans-and-sneakers wearing hedge fund manager. He provokes their contempt. He is loathed.”
I always knew that southern rednecks hated Jews, Blacks, and Catholics. It was interesting to learn that they also hate us.
I haven’t visited a BB store in years. I’ve been buying their number sized blue boxer shorts for years mail order. Nice to know I’m wearing the same model JFK wore. Normally $45 each, my last were 3 pairs for $67 on sale. A good price on sale.
Other than boxers, I only have a BB repp tie bought in the 1990’s.
Jos A Bank used to sell great boxers, also number sized. Now, JAB sells junk. Just a sign of the times.
Stay well, gents.
J
So tough on the internet, so tough.
“Southern rednecks”?
Do people really need to desperately scramble to find somebody to hate?
Must there always be some hostile “Other”?
Can’t you just like your clothes, talk to other people who like the same kind of clothes, and realize that in the fathomless immensity of the universe no one else gives a flying fuck about what you wear?
Everything is not about class conflict. That is a Leninist concept. And it is false.
Be cheerful. No one hates you because of your clothes. That’s a good thing.
I think Mike Surname is partially correct. No reason to go around looking for resentments. However, I know that I have been judged by my clothes, sometimes positively and sometimes negatively. A friend of my wife told her that she liked that I dressed well and said “people notice that.” I suppose some do. I certainly notice when someone is well dressed, but most people probably don’t, or else simply wonder why I am wearing a coat and tie and shined shoes when I’m not at a wedding or funeral.
On one occasion many years ago, someone I imagine could be described as a redneck decided that khakis, Top Siders and a crew-neck sweater made me fair game for name calling and threatened to beat me up in the parking lot of a convenience store. I avoided that fate on this occasion. A similar, if less violent, exchange occurred some years later in Long Island City, Queens, where I was visiting a client’s office. More recently a self-described SJW lawyer, originally from Chicago, showered withering contempt on local lawyers in (eye roll) blue blazers, and expressed gratitude that he was not like them (cf. Luke 18:11). On these occasions, I tried not to respond in kind, and I now consider the SJW chap a friend, although I doubt he approves of my wardrobe any more now than then. Similarly I get along very well with several neighbors who are not especially well educated (high school or less), southern, rural, work with their hands and dress accordingly; we are always extremely friendly with each other and I enjoy talking with them.
My point is that there is much more to life than clothing, and that the human tendency to judge others by superficial markers is not limited to a particular region or class. Do I wish my SJW friend dressed better and had fewer tattoos? Sure, but that is his business. Would I love to see a return to Ivy heyday (or even Ivy 1980s) aesthetics? Of course, but it won’t happen. I’ll just dress as I wish, and hopefully some people will find it pleasing, and with luck the rest won’t care enough to hate me for it. And just maybe, Brooks, Southwick, Alden, Garland and Peal will survive in recognizable form. O frabjous day! Well, as the old song goes, I can dream, can’t I?
I had a friend about 15 years ago who was a veteran overseas captain for a big airline and a Viet Nam vet. He had a preference for shell cordovan boots. He told me that the company discouraged the shining of shoes. I didn’t ask why. This discussion has me wondering, do the passengers find it off-putting, or was it because the union did not wish to go down that road? I’m guessing now it was the latter. Instead of just not bringing up the subject, they found it better to informally enforce the lower standard. I remember graduate school in the 90’s some of the undergraduates voicing their disdain for shined shoes, wear as in the 80’s shining shoes was just a part of life. I believe it is a result of later generations growing up without fathers in the home. I cannot find another reasonable explanation.
I was anticipating that this thread would turn into a discussion of how Zac Posen and Thom Browne ruined Brooks Brothers. Neither is a “southern redneck.”
As Sinead O’Connor once said, “Fight the real enemy!”
I remember a funeral where I was almost the only person in a jacket and tie. Most everyone was in the same jeans and t-shirts they wear to everything else.
What if Ralf Lauren acquired Brooks Brothers?
In any case, with Brooks Brothers operating at break even profitability with $600M of debt to service, someone may be able to acquire BB for free if they were willing to pick up the debt.
The current financial state of BB is sad and unfortunate because I truly love the brand.
Kansas City had a Brooks Brothers on the Country Club Plaza right next to the Polo Shop. This would have been in the early 80s. There was mixed feelings, KC had always had locally owned Ivy men’s shops for many decades and the market seemed to become diluted.
I’m not sure the “red neck” thing is real. Kansas City still has both Brooks and Polo, but they are outlet stores about two blocks from the Kansas Speedway where red necks go to see NASCAR. 😉
I stand corrected, there is also a Brooks in a Leawood, Kansas mall. Leawood is an upscale suburb of the Kansas City Metro area. I was told and assumed it had closed.
There is a guy on ebay named Steve who has a boatload of BB made in North Carolina, must iron button downs, form the Garland factory store which went out of biz. Better get em while they last. He has a few J Press also.
Brooks had a prime location in Austin at 6th and Congress. That’s literally the center of downtown and surrounded by banks, law firms etc. It closed a few years ago. BB has a store at a gigantic outlet mall 30 miles south.
As for rednecks, I would be careful about throwing around negative generalizations about any group of people — especially if you don’t know many of them personally.
JDV
Thank you for the tip. “Steve” doesn’t bring up any Ebay User ID please be more specific if possible.
As someone above pointed out, Brooks waaaay overextended from a relatively niche, US-based chain to some sort of global empire based on an unconscionable amoutn of debt.
The best thing that can happen to them is that someone buys the viable US stores (like 44th st.) and runs them decently.
In any case, there is of course J press, for the traditionalists, and companies like Mercer that have surpassed Brooks (in this case, on OCBDs) by miles.
Large brick and mortar retailers were having difficulties pre-virus and I cannot imagine too many buyers will want to step forward and purchase BB or J Crew as they exist. Perhaps someone will buy the names and focus on internet only strategy or just a few retail locations similar to Press, Paul Stuart, Ben Silver, etc. at best we can hope for someone to try to restore BB to its heyday glory but, I suspect, any buyer will use name and offshore more production for abysmal quality offerings. Hopefully, O’Connells, Press, Mercer, Rancourt, and Alden will all survive the downturn.
@AJP
Try Steve Smith
“no one else gives a flying fuck about what you wear“
Not true
It is yet another “end of an era”. BB has been a hollowed out symbol of what it was and
represented sixty years ago during the Golden Age. I stopped buying their tailored
clothing in the 70s and 80s and changed to Paul Stuart and then Chipp not because of quality issues
but because PS and Chipp were a bit less stodgy and fit me better. When BB became
a “brand” instead of a clothier, that’s when the rot set in. It didn’t help that this move
coincided with the decline in popularity of the Ivy Style. The preppy revival notwithstanding,
BB has been on this course for decades.
Not only do we hate them, but we feel superior to them, and feeling superior was always the underlying idea behind trad/ivy style.
Felix
That’s not true for me at all. And here’s a pro tip: If you hate a group of people, they will hate you back. Where does that get you?
A few years ago, before closing a men’s shop that catered to traditional (Ivy) tastes, apparently one of the owners confessed (rather proudly, actually) that, if he was willing to settle for less profit, he could keep the store going.
He had done well–as the story goes, made enough to afford a second home (beach), private schools for his kids, and plenty of hobbies, including golf and a sailboat. Some of you have known owners of such stores, and you know they quickly become accustomed (if they weren’t already) to the lifestyles of of their customers.
When profits spiraled downward, he called it quits. That was that.
I suspect the same is true for the owners of Ben Silver, O’ Connell’s, Eljo’s, and The Andover Shop. If/when that moment comes–when they’re no longer able to live as their (mostly affluent) customers live–they’ll quit and do something else (or retire). One response to this line of thinking is, “Well, that’s capitalism. Creative destruction. Markets and cycles. Businesses come and go. Supply and demand rule the day.” Maybe reason for lament and a deep, sentimental sigh (“Remember when…?”), but, well…
…oh, well.
Another response, different but similar, is the one we’ve received repeatedly throughout the past two decades: when the owners of bricks-and-mortar stores conclude there’s not much of a (significant) profit to be made, other options will prevail. Thanks to the internet, which is in many ways the new version of main street, purveyors of certain goods have thrived– in particular the catering to specific, unique, and even eccentric tastes. Like, for instance, classic OCBDS.
Throughout the past few years, I’ve bought most of my OCBDs from Mercer & Sons and High Bar, which is the online incarnation of Skip Gambert. I’ve bought pants from the great folks at All American Khakis (https://allamericankhakis.com), my socks from the folks at Boardroom Socks (https://boardroomsocks.com), and shoes (Alden) from Sherman Brothers (https://www.shermanbrothers.com/brands/alden/) and The Shoe Mart. For ties, there’s R. Hanauer.
All made in America. And online. Manufacturers who decided to develop a direct (from manufacturer) to customer business.
What’s missing?
An online retailer of blazers and jackets that can avoid overhead costs while using American manufacturing–thus providing a great product and at a reasonable price. Probably, like so many online businesses, the side project of someone who’s making (or already made) his/her profits doing something else. I think Mr. Carlson’s Rowing Blazers is a good example of this. Let’s see if he extends the number of options (fabric) while keeping the price WASP-friendly.
As wonderful and charming and great as the bricks-and-mortar stores were/are, a fact is a fact: we can now find “the good stuff” (as well made as the stuff on Heyday era Squeeze hangers and shelves) online.
I grew up on the Texas coast from the 4th grade onward. There was a local family who were deepwater shrimpers. One of them was huge, with the thick muscles of hard work. His neck was literally crimson. Of course he was called Bubba.
South Vietnamese families were re-located to our coast in the late 70’s, and many got in the crabbing business. It rubbed some locals the wrong way. Up the coast, the Klan took advantage of the ill will to organize against them.
Eventually a Klan organizer showed up at docks near Bubba’s business, but it did not go well for him. You see, Bubba’s family had a French heritage and were Catholic. He knew what the Klan stood for. Bubba grabbed him by the collar of his shirt (probably not an OCBD) with one hand and hurled him into the water. He advised in less-than-gentlemanly terms that the Klansman needed to take his message elsewhere. The Klan’s southward growth stopped right there.
So, would someone like to explain to me what kind of “redneck” Bubba was? Come on. Use your heads for something more than parting your hair.
I’m with RWK: I’ve had mixed feelings about Polo/Ralph Lauren offerings over the years, but at this point he’s probably one of the few who are equipped make a go of reviving Brooks, and maybe even accomplish what Brooks has been trying to do for decades now – reach a broader audience, but do so by highlighting the traditional stuff; making it ‘aspirational’ to new audiences?
Also, per some of the discussion above (and perhaps familiar to RWK and other Old Liners like myself): there are a couple of places on the Eastern Shore (the Bay Country Shop in Cambridge, the Preppy Redneck in St. Michael’s) which occupy a very unique space in this conversation about ‘who wears what’. Maybe they exist elsewhere too. But in such places, “trad” and “redneck” are not mutually exclusive. Just putting that out there.
SE: Rowing Blazers doesn’t make real blazers, they sell samples. Completely fused, zero canvassing.
Look elsewhere.
With the possibility of an impending global depression on the cards, I shall not be worrying about who sells what type of shirt, I shall simply get them made. Dig out that old favourite, impossible-to-get-again shirt and have it copied. This will not break the bank come 2021, well, that is what I am betting on…
This is pretty simple. Let’s face it–these companies are going out of business because there’s barely any market for Ivy clothing anymore. I say this as a Brooks customer for nearly 50 years. I am saddened, but that’s the way it is.
Trace speaks the truth — bluntly and simply. And clearly.
The companies grew too big–way, way too big. (especially Brooks).
Which is why, more and more, attention will be paid to the online merchants. For niche stuff like traditional clothing, this makes all the sense in the world.
Trace,
BB scares away potential customers by charging absurdly high prices.
Martin…As a longtime customer, I never thought Brooks’ prices were that high, especially if you waited for the annual sales, when major bargains could be had. Now if you want scary, check Ben Silver’s prices.
Trace,
I like Ben Silver’s stuff. But, yea, $195 for an OCBD shirt seems a little steep. I hope they survive, though.
http://www.bensilver.com/White-Oxford-Button-Down,23481.html#.Xq84WqhKhPY
Cheers, BC
I’ve got a closet full of clothes and accessories purchased over decades from Brooks, Press, and a hidden gem from ’80s New York called Burton Ltd., plus Jermyn Street shirts. I doubt I’ll ever buy anything new again; I just don’t need it. Still, I can’t pass up bargain; I’ve made many great finds in recent years from second-hand shops.
J Crew was the victim of massive debt piled on several years earlier piled on by the TPG group in a leveraged buyout. J Press had not turned a profit in seven years because of the debt load. The coronavirus was just the straw that broke the back.
GMH – I think you may have meant J. Crew, rather than J. Press, in the second sentence. At least I hope so. I would hate to think that Squeeze is in that sort of shape. I am so thankful that Press resisted the temptation to expand into a chain of mall shops like Brooks. Keeping my fingers crossed for them.
Some here have opined that “rednecks hate trads/preppies.” I wonder, though: is this based on personal experience? The rednecks I’ve known have been, on the whole, decent folks, and are often much kinder than those who wear blazers, penny loafers, and khakis. YMMV.
As for reactions to clothes, yes, everyone notices, at some level, what other people wear. I have found that my jacket, tie, and fedora make me nearly invisible to hoodlums—I am an insignificant blip on their screens, and they leave me and those I’m with alone. Some will actually compliment me on what I wear!
The group that’s most likely to react negatively to my apparel is the SJW crowd. I guess Marxists can’t help but try to engage in class struggle.
Rednecks, literally, are people like me: golfers, tennis bums, baseball players. People who get skin cancer.
RWK,
Picturing Brooks under Ralph I imagine a sub-label, a sort of Ivy Style RRL, with heyday reproduction OCBDs and sport coats.. made in China of course.