When you go to an Ivy League school, or so I’ve heard, there’s a certain hierarchy of coolness in your attitude towards it.
Coolest of all, of course, is having dropped out to do better things, like Mark Zuckerberg. Basically you’re so smart you don’t even need an Ivy League degree. Dropping out because you found it “boring” also garners top points.
Next would be graduating, perhaps even with honors, but revealing this information at cocktail parties with only the greatest reluctance, always saying “ah yes, when I was at school…” and never “when I was at Yale…”
Leaving the cool and descending into the uncool is have graduated, perhaps without honors, but letting the fact be known everywhere you go and with everyone you meet.
And finally, most decidedly uncool, is being president of your alumni association.
I’m not sure where velvet Princeton slippers fit in all of this, but if you’d like a pair, or ones from other select universities, check out JP Crickets. Use them to stylishly climb the corporate ladder on the backs of underachievers. — CC
Unless your name is Paul, or Peter, Perry, or… these slippers are Red-lining on the Pretentious meter!
And the ugly meter.
Ivy League cats do nothing but rub it in your face regarding where they went to school. Even if it was just because daddy went there and made a little donation.
What percentage of students is that?
I am constantly amazed at how many people assume that most the students in the Ivy League are legacies who bought their way in. I had teachers in my high school telling me that I would probably be top of the class because most people are legacy admits. Let me assure you this is not the case. By far the majority of students have not had a parent at the school before, and the few that have are more than smart enough on their own to justify their admission. You can criticize the Ivy League for many things, but it simply isn’t a bunch of rich, dumb white boys anymore. And if you cling to that belief you just sound bitter.
@ CQ-you’re right about the demographics changing greatly but do you have any hard data to support “by far a majority of students have not had a parent at the school before” ? As a public high school teacher I’m always curious about admissions numbers. . .I’m sure it varies by the current applicant pool and school itself
@- CQ. I have to agree with you on this. These schools are extremely competitive and the days of taking on slacker legacy students is long gone. Maybe this goes on at Division III private schools, but not so much the Ivy’s anymore.
@ – Christian. Your post did have a tone of resentment.
Big Ten Grad here
I am in high school, going through the college process, looking at Ivy League schools, and, from what I have seen, almost everyone who has gone to an Ivy from my school is either a legacy, or they bought their way in. Often times, it is a combination of the two. Mom and Dad just happened to donate a wing to the school that year! I hate for it to be true in all cases, but, it is just what I have seen in Fairfield County, CT.
I am trying to determine if your post is based on one too many irritating alumni cocktail parties you’ve been forced to attend, or resentment because you graduated from a non-descript public school after being denied admission to the Ivy’s? Either way the post is wildly entertaining.
@James-There’s more to the Ivy League than Harvard
Who the hell knows ONE…bloody…thing…about any school except the one they went to? And who at ANY “prestigious” school did a poll to find out where Daddy went? E.g., my school, UNC-Chapel Hill, had a policy that ALL professors, including the highest Chaired and dept. heads, would teach undergraduate courses, and not just senior seminars. Don’t know how many people from “elsewhere” told me how I was only taught by grad students, and couldn’t get to see full profs after class.
BTW, if I’d doing admissions anywhere, and your parents want to kick in several million, your ragged ass is IN
There may be the odd legacy by virtue of generations but Harvard prides itself on the high calibre of its students. I got into a post PhD research affiliate position at Harvard as a PhD student from the outback of Australia and I can assure you that the Northern Territory and Deakin Universities are not anywhere near top twenty universities in Australia.
I don’t know much from Ivy League schools, but I can’t be the only man who has seen these velvet slippers pushed on various blogs and websites and thought they were the most effete, un-masculine thing ever. I’m not even sure my gay friends would wear them. Do these things actually sell? And if so, to whom?
“stylishly climb the corporate ladder” – this is the definition of “uncool”. With “cool” understood in suprisingly decent way, actually.
When you’re preparing a post on velvet slippers with the Princeton insignia, an irreverent tone is practically mandatory. Please don’t confuse this with resentment.
I do, however, take an ironic view of the “best and brightest,” as do most of my “creative” California state-school slacker friends, most of whom wound up working for Internet companies, where Ivy grads would sometimes be brought in. Often they were highly organized and energetic, but needed to be told what to do and didn’t have any original ideas.
The hierarchy of coolness was taken from this:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/03/class-dismissed/7274/
In SF, pretentious people tell you within five minutes of meeting you of “when they were at Lowell H.S.” or “at Stanford.”
My father went to Lowell. Didn’t realize some consider it such a big deal.
See, that’s almost as good as going there yourself!
Christian
I got your “irreverent tone”, how could one not, velvet opera pump like slippers em blazed with one’s alma mater. They might be fun to wear around the frat house or formals, but in public seems just pretentious. I don’t have a problem with old fashion “white tie” pumps, but when was the last time anyone one we know went to a white tie affair?
From my Midwest middle class perspective, ivy league educations have always been respected, mostly because the Midwest students accepted there are middle or lower class students with stellar academics.
Thanks for the Atlantic article, as usual fun and insightful.
I enjoyed this post. Most slippers I’ve seen in this style have club insignias or initials; never seen a pair with school crests/initials before. Worn with black tie, or sometimes with a blazer, at a small number of places. Not considered odd or even notable in those contexts, but recognized as limited to such settings. I have a club pair, and a plain black pair. Love ‘em – very comfortable.
@MAC: there are still white tie events in the big East Coast cities, but they are usually private, e.g., Gridiron, or hereditary societies. I don’t know if they are fewer in number than in the past, but I do know that fewer people care about these events. Things that made the “society” pages of newspapers in the past still take place, but they are no longer viewed as meriting news coverage.
Educator: I found this article from last year claiming that legacies made up about 10% of Yale’s incoming class: http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/29/legacy-2/ There is no doubt that being a legacy helps get you in. But the idea that the legacies that are admitted to the school are unqualified or overrun the school is silly. Also, as for buying your way in, I’m sure that happens occasionally, you need to keep those kinds of claims in perspective. Are that many parents “buying a wing” for the school ever year? Most schools don’t have space to build a new library every year
So maybe a small handful of people are let in on those grounds, but to me that is more than worth it for the academic experience of the student body at large. Always be suspicious of people who claim that someone got in because they bought there way in…its usually nonsense. I even know a girl who’s parents literally did donate a building to Dartmouth but was still rejected.
Also, I hope it is clear that my original comment was addressed to James and not Christian. Christian’s tone seems entirely appropriate to me. A quick note, you would be laughed out of any gathering, no matter how formal, you showed up to in those shoes on campus. Mostly because the students are hypersensitive to appearing pretentious.
I’m happy to be one of the few guys who owns white tie and has worn it many times. Alas never for any real event (though I think the mayor would pop by the Art Deco Society Preservation Ball in San Francisco), but for waltzing balls. A couple years ago I pitched a story about America’s last remaining white tie balls open to the public (there are still a few), but couldn’t get a bite.
Formal balls remain hugely popular in Austria, with many open to the public.
My wife once asked me if she might be strange for wanting to get into competitive ballroom dancing in order to have a reason to wear beautiful gowns. I told her that I would love to join her, as it would give me an excuse to acquire, and wear, white tie.
Now that I know that all we have to do is waltz—my second-favorite dance—well, sign us up!
Re Ivy demographics: It’s also worth keeping in mind that the Ivy League schools have the best financial aid in the country, and lots of students are on financial aid. A surprising number (I want to say around 40% these days) still foot the bill, but there were plenty of first-generation college students in my class and most kids were getting generous aid or taking out loans.
I did meet a fair number of legacies and people that raised eyebrows as far as what their parents might have donated, but those people were few and far between. Remember that most legacies still get rejected, and the ones that get in are usually extremely talented and went to good schools. The Ivy acceptance rates are down below 10% now!
That was a longer post than I anticipated. Maybe it struck a nerve because I was one of those full financial aid kids. (And we can be just as insufferable, believe me. I must be low on the coolness level if I have to talk about my educational background on the internet.)
In any case, those slippers are incredibly lame and I can only imagine someone wearing them ironically to a P-rade or something.
P.S.: Where do you get detachable wing collars that are tall enough? All the modern ones seem to be ridiculously short.
Tall collars (esp. “Grafton”):
http://www.luke-eyres.co.uk/%28S%28xaru5ir1nrk5bwzr02ufkhyo%29%29/Pages/ProductCatalog/CategoryPage.aspx?CategoryName=Collars&id_category=1
I want a pair in my second-tier Church of Christ school colors. It just seems fittingly lame.
FYI, an article on “no loan policies” of elite universities.
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/07/06/cornell-restores-loans-those-family-incomes-above-60000
Henry
Gittman once made a great wing collar shirt with a fairly high collar, they might still.
Thanks for the tip, Taliesin.
Oh for those interested, the P on velvet slippers stand for “Ponce”.
“I do, however, take an ironic view of the “best and brightest,” as do most of my “creative” California state-school slacker friends, most of whom wound up working for Internet companies, where Ivy grads would sometimes be brought in. Often they were highly organized and energetic, but needed to be told what to do and didn’t have any original ideas.”
True enough. When my company’s East Coast HQ started foisting Ivy MBAs on our SF office the place went right into the shitter. These guys knew how to extract a fat paycheck but didn’t have the creativity to develop solutions that worked for our clients. A once billion-dollar company was sold for a measly $9 million. It survives and thrives today, lead not by the MBAs but a by a guy with a journalism degree from a state school who knows the business inside and out.
“Oh for those interested, the P on velvet slippers stand for ‘Ponce’.”
That’s funny. But I would consider Cricket tasseled version for special occasions.
Let us recall that “the best and the brightest” often refers to the lunkheads in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations who were responsible for the Bay of Pigs fiasco; who abandoned the Monroe Doctrine; who nearly started WWIII over Cuba; and who got us entangled in Vietnam.
My dad went to Yale and I have a t-shirt and skull and bones tie to prove it!
Henry
I agree, but there was a time when members of the elite old money ivy league entered public service a did some great things, mostly before WWII. They didn’t act or think like they were the smartest guy in the room, they were there to actually give back.
The Bay of Pigs, in a new book, “The Presidents’ Club”, tells the story how “the best and the brightest”, in their hubris, eliminated the decision process Eisenhower had left Kennedy. The “B & B”, in their brainstorming method, never realized that the Pentagon invasion of Cuba was just one of many scenarios, as we all know now the Pentagon plans all kinds of scenarios, including the invasion of Canada. Long story short, Eisenhower can’t believe Kennedy did it, Kennedy secretly invites Eisenhower to meeting, Eisenhower explains to Kennedy how they short circuited the process and Eisenhower offers to take the blame so Kennedy can save face, behind the scene Eisenhower advises Kennedy till he’s shot.
V. Nam, SEATO and French sucked us in and LBJ’s personality and the “B & B” escalated it out of control.
Kennedy STOPPED WW3 in Cuba.
There have been plenty of behind the scenes accounts from people who were involved to verify that.
We were entangled in Vietnam long before Kennedy took office.
You think Nixon had nothing to do with anything bad happening in Vietnam or Cambodia?
Oh yes, just what the world needed – another velvet/formal slipper maker. “Select universities” includes such intellectual powerhouses as U of Alabama, U of Georgia, and Syracuse. I see.
Why do folks with time, energy, and means people do this? This market is so saturated and so niche I just don’t understand….
“Formal balls remain hugely popular in Austria”
Oh yeah? So does fascism.
John
It’s documented, Kennedy was considered weak by Khrushchev, from their meetings and Kennedy’s missteps. As weak presidents will be tested by our enemies, the Russians escalated from the construction of the Berlin Wall to the installation of nukes on Cuba. Luckily, we had missiles in Turkey and a promise not to invade Cuba to trade away for the elimination of the Russian nukes. Kennedy gets credit for both, precipitating and negotiating an ending to the crisis.
In contrast, Eisenhower presided for eight years of the Cold War and wasn’t ever challenged to this extent.
We were involved in Nam the day WWII ended and signed SEATO. Nixon did a lot of nasty things in Cambodia and North Vietnam, mostly to the enemy. He was elected to end the war, which his policies did and without the distraction of Watergate probably sooner.
Richard
Not all pirates when to Yale.
http://www.rightstuffdating.com
Sorry about that – hit the return key prematurely; my contribution to the hubris question, the above link for “Right Stuff Dating.” From the site: “Proof of graduation from a listed school is required for registration.”
I will stay away from the politics, but will say that I am an ivy grad and pretty durned creative. Please narrow your brush a bit!
ken22
Congrats on your educational achievement and I won’t be registering on that site for obvious reasons.
In a critical vein though, for God’s sake, don’t correct and apologize for your post errors. You will make me look bad and feel guilty.
The velvet Albert slipper is sadly missing from the streets of D.C.–Ivy associations, or lack there of, not withstanding. Given how infrequently you see them around here–and how violently people react when they are seen–we could use any form of encouragement that exists. Thank you for pimping exactly what needs to be pimped.
John,
I was talking about the term “the best and the brightest.” Your “arguments” are orthogonal to my point, and as for their content, MAC took care of that (thanks!).
@Henry
They aren’t “arguments”. They’re called FACTS.
@MAC
Whatever Krushchev may have “considered” Kennedy is irrelevant. It’s “documented” that Krushchev backed down. He “tested” Kennedy, and he failed. There has been extensive documentation of this by people who were there.
“The compromise was a particularly sharp embarrassment for Khrushchev and the Soviet Union because the withdrawal of US missiles from Italy and Turkey was not made public at that time—it was a secret deal between Kennedy and Khrushchev. The Soviets were seen as retreating from circumstances that they had started—though if played well, it could have looked just the opposite. Khrushchev’s fall from power two years later can be partially linked to Politburo embarrassment at both Khrushchev’s eventual concessions to the US and his ineptitude in precipitating the crisis in the first place. Taubman (2004) reports that, according to Dobrynin, the top Soviet leadership took the Cuban outcome as “a blow to its prestige bordering on humiliation”.”
John,
Do you have a personal stake in defending Kennedy? Or are you just upset at people being wrong on the internet?
Also, I have desired acquiring a new pair of crested slippers of late!
@Everett
Do you have a personal stake in this comments section? Or are you just upset at reading something which confuses your limited brainpower?
I just get annoyed by this Henry curmudgeon injecting bizarre political attacks at liberals into every single damn comments section. The article could be about pancakes and Henry would find a way to twist it into his hatred of anyone different from himself (ie…”liberal”).
John
Evidently, historians disagree, but we can all agree that some on both sides thought their leaders fucked up.
It does matter what our “enemies’ leaders” think of our President, weak or ineffective, both invite provocation.
Kennedy wasn’t all that liberal by today’s standards. Sadly he was shot, but I always wondered what he would have thought of Bobby’s and Ted’s rhetoric
John,
Hell, I’m a moderate, and end up feeling insulted and attacked by both the right and the left whenever some discourse comes around. I’d say don’t participate, but seeing as how that’d make me a hypocrite, I’ll just say I know how it feels.
Hello.. Gentlemen. SHOES here. All I can think about is a clean fresh incredibly smart man dressed in linen, khaki or baby cords, soft shirt, glow of a tan, just showered, having that first cocktail after returning from a project at home, the water, the links, the courts, or horsing around all day. This is the man who wears these shoes.
At his home, at a tented party in the grass amongst friends in the country. At a wedding with other fellow alum and perhaps the groom at the reception with his fellow classmates in tuxedo for a memorable photo! In the city at the club in Khaki pants where members are not whining about who went where and just living life sharing a drink. The University logo on your feet instead of front and center on a ball cap. A touch of whimsy not braggadocio! Not puff of your chest. Think Eating club before a football game, Reunion, P -Rade. Have a little more fun everyone.. be true to your school.
Oh and by the way, no one seems to think it is “Pretentious” to wear your exclusive country club logo all over your person?? hmm interesting, so what is the difference?
John,
Sure, my characterization of “the best and the brightest” as “lunkheads” is intemperate, but I find it amazing that you find such verbiage to be born of “hatred.” Disagreement and criticism do not hatred make (a point sadly lost in most political “dialogue” these days).
If you’re looking for actual hate, perhaps you should look in the mirror: it is mainly the liberals (not “liberals,” but liberals) who spew hate—most often in their attacks on anyone different from themselves (i.e., conservatives, including “conservatives” like the Bushes).
Wait—are you “Button Down Mind”/”J. Ivy”/etc.? The guy who changes his moniker every few weeks because Christian keeps deleting your comments and banning you? If so, forget it—there’s no point in talking with you.
Henry
It always amazes me, that some individuals have the ability to read a man’s heart on the internet. Especially those on the left, they’re like tarrot card readers always flipping one of many “hate” cards.
One hardly needs tarot cards to read the hearts of rightists.
Thanks for making Henry’s point.
@Henry
“If you’re looking for actual hate, perhaps you should look in the mirror: it is mainly the liberals (not “liberals,” but liberals) who spew hate—most often in their attacks on anyone different from themselves (i.e., conservatives, including “conservatives” like the Bushes).”
WOW, just WOW. Conservatives never fail with their massive “projection” and lack of self-awareness. Truly mind blowing. As well as sadly typical.
You have brought up race yet though. That’s usually your “go-to” rant. 3…..2……1……
@Henry
I’ve never been banned sweetie.
Henry
Not to worry, in November, if things continue as they are, we will sit back and hear heads exploding. Sans an October surprise, I’m standing by my Reagan type landslide. The tracking polls have the race dead even this week, that with two weeks of Zero spending 5 to 1 in battle ground states pounding Mittens on Bain, Swiss bank accts. and outsourcing and of course the media carrying Zero’s water. Zero won’t talk about his record, I wouldn’t either. But, the administration did credit themselves with the development of a Lexus Hybrid, unfortunately the auto in question has been in production since 2004.
Elected Demos, Super Delegates, are already refusing to attend the convention and that number will increase. The unions are backing off their financial support for the convention. Even former “super bundlers” are switching sides as Zero spends faster than he is collecting contributions. Mittens continues to out fundraise Zero and is holding his “shock and awe” for later.
An example of the polling mentioned, 7-9-2012 ABCNEWS/ WASHPOST has Zero and Mittens tied at 47 – 47 , they had to use Demo +9 in the sampling to do it.
John,
Uh, no. The projection is on your part, not mine. See also MAC’s comments.
J. Ivy,
I’ve seen your comments get deleted, so don’t try to B.S. us. Perhaps you haven’t been banned, but why do you keep changing your moniker?
And don’t call me sweetie, cupcake.
I’m late to the discussion (sorry), but for all those talking about “buying” your way into Ivies, they’re actually the cheapest private schools in the U.S. Check out this site, which ranks Princetons as the most affordable college in the nation: http://www.kiplinger.com/tools/privatecolleges/
It’s grossly false to correlate money with Ivies these days.